What New Routes From Dfw / Post Wright

AA191

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Sep 17, 2002
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Will we see DFW-PHX when the Wright Amendment is repealed in a few months? What other immediate routes will we see?
 

MAH4546

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Aug 22, 2002
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AA191 said:
Will we see DFW-PHX when the Wright Amendment is repealed in a few months? What other immediate routes will we see?
[post="282656"][/post]​

What are you talking about? The point of repealing the amendement is to not fly from DFW. Unless you meant to say DAL?

Also, it isn't "when", it is "if".
 

jimntx

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Jun 28, 2003
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Unfortunately, it is when, not if. And, no. I doubt you will see DAL-PHX, at least, at first. SWA will want to cherry-pick the money-makers like DAL-LAX, DAL-BWI, DAL-ISP, DAL-LAS, DAL-SEA (or whatever the Boeing Field code is), and DAL-MDW.
 

hp-csr-phx

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Feb 5, 2004
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The nonstop one way fare on HP and AA from DFW to PHX is now up to $599. I think you might very well see WN on the DALPHX route. Also PHX has numerous conx opportunities; it is WN's second largest operation.
 

TheDog2004

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Mar 26, 2004
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jimntx said:
Unfortunately, it is when, not if. And, no. I doubt you will see DAL-PHX, at least, at first. SWA will want to cherry-pick the money-makers like DAL-LAX, DAL-BWI, DAL-ISP, DAL-LAS, DAL-SEA (or whatever the Boeing Field code is), and DAL-MDW.
[post="282675"][/post]​


And expect JetBlue to introduce DAL-JFK, DAL-LGB, DAL-BOS, and DAL-IAD

AirTran to introduce DAL-ATL and DAL-MCO (or even move their entire DFW operation to DAL, which would add DAL-LAS, DAL-LAX, and DAL-BWI).

Indy Air to introduce DAL-IAD

American to introduce DAL-DCA, DAL-LGA, DAL-ORD, and DAL-MIA

Maybe even Song introduces DAL-JFK

HOLY COMPETITION BATMAN!
 

TheDog2004

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Mar 26, 2004
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Whadayano said:
And where will the new guys get gates from?
[post="282689"][/post]​

Southwest gets to give up some gate space.

Or face multiple lawsuits from many airlines.

The hunter has become the hunted.
 

jimntx

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hp-csr-phx said:
The nonstop one way fare on HP and AA from DFW to PHX is now up to $599. I think you might very well see WN on the DALPHX route. Also PHX has numerous conx opportunities; it is WN's second largest operation.
[post="282676"][/post]​

And, when was the last time you saw someone actually pay the walk-up ONE WAY fare? Nobody flying on my AA flights. Hell, the one's I'm working...even the F/C passengers are upgrades or discounted fares. :lol:

The reason to fly hub to hub is because one hub offers connections the other does not. If people have to fly to PHX to make a connection from DAL to ???, they probably would just as soon fly down to Houston then connect--which is what they do now. Shorter first leg, don't you know.

Also, I see a definite reduction in either PHX or HOU or both. Having 3 hubs within that close proximity is a non-starter. The longest distance is 2.5 hours and PHX and HOU serve a lot of the same cities non-stop which would also be served non-stop from DAL.
 

ELP_WN_Psgr

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Nov 29, 2003
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Southwest gets to give up some gate space.

Or face multiple lawsuits from many airlines.

The hunter has become the hunted.

I would be curious as to why Southwest would be forced to give up gates. Their gate utilization is already higher than practically every other airline in the world. Further....nobody has forced AA to give up gate space at DCA, or United to give up gate space at LaGuardia so that said gate space could be given to someone else.

Unfortunately, it is when, not if. And, no. I doubt you will see DAL-PHX, at least, at first. SWA will want to cherry-pick the money-makers like DAL-LAX, DAL-BWI, DAL-ISP, DAL-LAS, DAL-SEA (or whatever the Boeing Field code is), and DAL-MDW.

And I would suggest you are wrong about Phoenix and you are wrong about Southwest funneling traffic in from LIT or MCI or HOU or anyplace to connect at DAL.

Here's the real deal. It is cheaper for Southwest to put a passenger on a plane, fly him or her one leg to his destination, and send the passenger off on his or her merry way.

Take offs cost money. With fuel as high as it was at the Chevron Station in Burbank, Southwest isn't going to want to splurge and have to pay for a customer to enjoy one more takeoff than is absolutely necessary.

To a degree I am kidding here but you get my drift. Connections cost money. 80% of WN passengers ride a nonstop. 6% ride flights with an intermediate stop and 14% make a connection somewhere. Southwest is not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and get rid of nonstops from MCI to either coast when those nonstops are making them money.

Now, what I think you might really see...especially early on....would be a plethora of one stops to new places. To wit:

DAL-ELP-PHX
DAL-ABQ-OAK
DAL-MAF-LAS
DAL-ABQ-LAS
DAL-AMA-LAS
DAL-LIT-BWI
DAL-MCI-MDW
DAL-STL-MDW
DAL-BNA-RDU
DAL-JAN-MCO
DAL-BHM-MCO
DAL-MSY-TPA
DAL-TUS-SAN

and so on and so forth. Southwest will want to start the downward pressure on fares which will generate the accompanying increase in O&D passenger traffic. There will be no way way to throw enough planes in a short enough period of time to do everything. Thus, in order to maximize the benefit (to their customers and to the bottom line) they will offer a large selection of one stops. One stops are real efficient...they let you increase frequency, they allow you to serve two cities with a single gate-departure, and they cut you some slack and allow you some time to build a market. We already know WN carries the lion's share of passengers DAL-ELP and ELP-PHX. Filling up additional seats on the plane DAL-PHX costs no more, but generates a great deal of extra revenue.
 

jimntx

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ELP_WN_Psgr said:
I would be curious as to why Southwest would be forced to give up gates.  Their gate utilization is already higher than practically every other airline in the world.  Further....nobody has forced AA to give up gate space at DCA, or United to give up gate space at LaGuardia so that said gate space could be given to someone else.
[post="282725"][/post]​

Neither AA at DCA (actually, I think US Airways has the most gates at DCA, but let's not quibble) nor UAL at LGA has over 90% of the available gates as SW does at DAL. As I said before...SW does not want to compete on a level playing field. They want exclusive use of DAL while everyone else pays the higher landing fees and gate rentals at DFW.
 

swflyer

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Aug 20, 2002
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jimntx said:
Neither AA at DCA (actually, I think US Airways has the most gates at DCA, but let's not quibble) nor UAL at LGA has over 90% of the available gates as SW does at DAL.  As I said before...SW does not want to compete on a level playing field.  They want exclusive use of DAL while everyone else pays the higher landing fees and gate rentals at DFW.
[post="282728"][/post]​

Okay, you've said it twice, and your math is still off.

16 gates in main terminal, SWA has 14 for a total of 87.5%
Include the 6 gates in the Legend facility (the master plan does), which American can start service out of tomorrow w/o insisting SWA give anything up, brings SWA's portion to 14/22 = 64%

Build the 10 additional gates allowed in the Master Plan and see SWA's total go to 14/32 = 44%

What did you say American's portion of DFW was??? <_<

While you're finding that number Jim, can you go ahead and post your source for SWA saying, "They want exclusive use of DAL while everyone else pays the higher landing fees and gate rentals at DFW" I haven't found this anywhere.
 

TheDog2004

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Mar 26, 2004
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swflyer said:
Okay, you've said it twice, and your math is still off.

16 gates in main terminal, SWA has 14 for a total of 87.5%
Include the 6 gates in the Legend facility (the master plan does), which American can start service out of tomorrow w/o insisting SWA give anything up, brings SWA's portion to 14/22 = 64%

Build the 10 additional gates allowed in the Master Plan and see SWA's total go to 14/32 = 44%

What did you say American's portion of DFW was??? <_<

While you're finding that number Jim, can you go ahead and post your source for SWA saying, "They want exclusive use of DAL while everyone else pays the higher landing fees and gate rentals at DFW" I haven't found this anywhere.
[post="282739"][/post]​

Southwest will not be allowed to have 14 of 16 gates if all of the airlines I mentioned wanted to start service ASAP. Southwest will either give up some of their current space and shelve their growth plans until the expansion is completed or they (and the city of Dallas or whomever controls Love Field) will get sued. And Southwest will lose and have a lot of egg on their face.

I really don't think this Wright Amendment repeal is such a great move for Southwest. Hubris has brought down a lot of great companies and Southwest certainly is no immune.