What? No ruckus about Continental joining the use it or lose it gang?

RealityCheck

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Awful quiet in here lately about all the ticketing changes that started a week ago. Now eff. 10/1,CO is matching US(excl.stdby) and the AA stdby policy .....
DO I hear a....NEXT?
 

AtlanticBeach

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Aug 20, 2002
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Reality Check-

CO and AA have avoided the issues that have most FF's up in arms, specifically the lack of preferred miles for non-refundables and no stand-by.

The other changes are not popular, but do not create the animosity that is now being directed towards US Airways.
 

ClueByFour

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Let's assume, for the sake of arguement, that all the majors match the standby/use it rules in one form or another. The next result will be _EVEN MORE BUSINESS PAX_ (read: the higher yields everybody wants) on LUV, JetBlue, Airtran, etc. What a great move!

You will note, however, that N-O-B-O-D-Y has matched US on the status qualification issue. So, if the standby BS becomes equally crappy amongst all the majors, do you really think that people will fly the airline without elite status miles on anything but it's top fares?
 
OP
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RealityCheck

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[blockquote]
----------------
On 9/4/2002 3:54:07 PM ClueByFour wrote:

Let's assume, for the sake of arguement, that all the majors match the standby/"use it" rules in one form or another. The next result will be _EVEN MORE BUSINESS PAX_ (read: the higher yields everybody wants) on LUV, JetBlue, Airtran, etc. What a great move!

You will note, however, that N-O-B-O-D-Y has matched US on the status qualification issue. So, if the standby BS becomes equally crappy amongst all the majors, do you really think that people will fly the airline without elite status miles on anything but it's top fares?
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[/blockquote]


Not everyone would be able to fit on those 2 lemonade stands you mentioned nor the cattlecar called LUV[;)]

From the websites of a few airlines I have visited ,a couple of others have either cutback or are planning on doing so with the way miles are accruing and the benefits of elite program like club access and fare types for status qualifying. What I don't understand is doesn't every fare paying ticket count as segments or miles towards the minimum level needed to attain each level?/I.E. if you flew 50 r/t e-savers for a total of 100 segs in a years time, wouldnt that give you preferred/chpr status regardless of the fare paid?
 

geo1004

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Aug 22, 2002
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Reality Un-Checked,

No, you do not earn segments for elite qualifications on all fares so your example of flying 50 e-savers would NOT earn you a single segment OR mile towards Preferred status.

Not one airline has matched the US poicy on earning Preferred/Elite status.


As far as the non-refundable fares being worthless 2 hours after a flight if not changed.... as I mentioned elsewhere, I can not wait until that Carnival Cruise Line ship docks in MIA/FLL a couple of hours late and belches out 1,500 passengers to the AA and US desks only to have those passengers and their families told their tickets are worthless and that will need to cough up $thousands per person to get home!!!!
 

KCFlyer

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REality check...I'll be generous here and give U,UAL, AA, and CO the benefit of waiting until the end of 1Q 2003 to see all the extra revenue that this policy is generating for the airlines...especially from all the businesses who will just say Shoot, ya got me and pay the unrestricted fares. IT should put them in the black...shouldn't it? Oh, and we'll have to compare them to that cattle car called LUV to see how they stack up. Early money says - LUV will show an increase in revenue from the prior year and the others...well, we'll have to see, won't we now?
 

7.5victim

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CO has dodged the bullet so far because the HAVEN'T MADE THE CHANGE PUBLIC! No press release has been posted on Yahoo! or CO.com announcing that this is, in fact, policy. They said the fee announcements were coming in the next few weeks, but either they're waiting to drop one big bomb, or they're afraid to make this one public.

RealityCheck -

What websites (besides US.com of course) have you visited and seen that other carriers were dropping club access for status holders or were restricting fare which earned status?
 

ClueByFour

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Not everyone would be able to fit on those 2 lemonade stands you mentioned nor the cattlecar called LUV[;)]

Who needs them? US just lost $1200 or so of business from me next month on transcons. I hear that the F seats on HP are not bad--guess we'll find out.


From the websites of a few airlines I have visited ,a couple of others have either cutback or are planning on doing so with the way miles are accruing and the benefits of elite program like club access and fare types for status qualifying. What I don't understand is doesn't every fare paying ticket count as segments or miles towards the minimum level needed to attain each level?/I.E. if you flew 50 r/t e-savers for a total of 100 segs in a years time, wouldnt that give you preferred/chpr status regardless of the fare paid?
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Who? United upped the price of their upgrades a bit, nothing to get excited about. Other than that?

To be frank, I would not care all that much if US did as AA does now with their program: incent the higher fares with a _quicker_ road to status, and disallow qualification for top teir elite by segments (you cannot become EX. PLT on AA on segments).

I suppose you could become CHPR on 50 e-savers. Outside of PIT, CLT, and PHL though, I don't know why you would want to. I think I've taken two e-savers this year, one to SFO and one to LAX--rarely do they go places that I want to go (and I live in a hub!).

Let's say that you did 50 e-savers: E-savers, presumably, are brought out to fill seats that would otherwise go empty. 50 * $150 is $7500 in revenue for seats that would have otherwise been empty. That would not be a total loss for the company, I'd think.
 
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RealityCheck

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----------------
On 9/4/2002 6:21:04 PM

Reality Un-Checked,

No, you do not earn segments for elite qualifications on all fares so your example of flying 50 e-savers would NOT earn you a single segment OR mile towards Preferred status.

Not one airline has matched the US poicy on earning Preferred/Elite status.


----------------

Using AA as the comparison since they started the concept 20 plus yrs ago and are supposedly considered the best.......

US POLICY
Effective for travel January 1, 2003, and beyond, members will not receive miles or segment credit toward Dividend Miles Chairman's Preferred, Gold Preferred or Silver Preferred status for tickets purchased in H, K, V, Q and L non-refundable fare classes.

Once a Dividend Miles member reaches Preferred status, they will receive their Preferred mileage bonus, Preferred check-in, seating, boarding and upgrade privileges, even when purchasing non-refundable fares.
AA POLICY
Purchased Fare Qualifying Points Earned Per Mile Flown
First Class 1.50
Business Class 1.25
Full-fare Economy Class* 1.00
Discount Economy Class** .50
* Includes fares booked in B or Y Class on American Airlines, American Eagle (and equivalent booking codes on partner airlines.1)
** Excludes American Airlines consolidator fares booked in O and fares booked in Q with travel originating in Europe (and equivalent booking codes on partner airlines1) and Internet fares noted as non-mileage earning.

Now from what I can interpret above, there is very little difference between AA accrual and US. AA gives same credit as US for F Y and B fares. Right or wrong?
AA only gives 1/2 a credit for their other fare codes called "discount economy class" on the chart above, I would assume that means anything but y and b ...but Us gives FULLCREDIT for similar other codes such as hr28 ha7 ha3us kr28 ka7)..as well as FULLCREDIT on B and M non- refndbles ..so for that slight variation, I would deem the programs quite similar with minute differences.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

As far as cruise pax are concerned, nbr one, you'd have to be a moron to book a flight not as part of a package deal not calculating for delays by sea..smart people book returns after 2pm, not so smart book noon flights..If I am not mistaken package deals with air and sea have procedures in place for delays....and nbr 2 an entire policy cannot be based on 2 days a week/ 2 cities when considered with whole network of US flights.on a daily basis.I would imagine there is an inhouse policy as there has always been to address this, including the ever continuous 2 hr flat tire rule which is nationwide..
 

TomBascom

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AA POLICY
Purchased Fare Qualifying Points Earned Per Mile Flown
First Class 1.50
Business Class 1.25
Full-fare Economy Class* 1.00
Discount Economy Class** .50

AA allows multiple paths to qualifying. Miles, Segments or Q Points. You're only showing the rules for Q Points. AA counts discount miles at full value. US will not count discount miles at all (if the new rule stands) and has no equivalent to Q Points (but does count Y & F miles at 1.5x)

As far as cruise pax are concerned, nbr one, you'd have to be a moron to book a flight...

You've made it very clear that that is what you believe your customers are. We get it. Thanks.
 

ClueByFour

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AA POLICY
Purchased Fare Qualifying Points Earned Per Mile Flown
First Class 1.50
Business Class 1.25
Full-fare Economy Class* 1.00
Discount Economy Class** .50
* Includes fares booked in B or Y Class on American Airlines, American Eagle (and equivalent booking codes on partner airlines.1)
** Excludes American Airlines consolidator fares booked in O and fares booked in Q with travel originating in Europe (and equivalent booking codes on partner airlines1) and Internet fares noted as non-mileage earning.

Now from what I can interpret above, there is very little difference between AA accrual and US. AA gives same credit as US for F Y and B fares. Right or wrong?
AA only gives 1/2 a credit for their other fare codes called "discount economy class" on the chart above, I would assume that means anything but y and b ...but Us gives FULLCREDIT for similar other codes such as hr28 ha7 ha3us kr28 ka7)..as well as FULLCREDIT on B and M non- refndbles ..so for that slight variation, I would deem the programs quite similar with minute differences.
Please correct me if I am wrong.


You are wrong. Per the part of http://www.aa.com/content/AAdvantage/progr...uirements.jhtml that you cleverly omitted, you also earn AA Gold, Platinum, or Exec. Platinum by flying 25k, 50k, or 100k qualifying miles or points. I've flown AA on fares bought from them, from consolidators, from priceline, etc and earned 1 mile per mile flown (500 minimum) on every flight.

By flying F and J fares, you will earn status more quickly, however, anybody flying 25k, 50k, or 100k miles will get the applicable status.

I have it from a CSR Supervisor and a director in Aadvantage that they are not touching the status requirements. Heck, AA already tries to limit it's elite population: they rarely comp (encourage the challanges--theirs are based on points only, not miles), etc.

As far as cruise pax are concerned, nbr one, you'd have to be a moron to book a flight not as part of a package deal not calculating for delays by sea..smart people book returns after 2pm, not so smart book noon flights..If I am not mistaken package deals with air and sea have procedures in place for delays....and nbr 2 an entire policy cannot be based on 2 days a week/ 2 cities when considered with whole network of US flights.on a daily basis.I would imagine there is an inhouse policy as there has always been to address this, including the ever continuous 2 hr flat tire rule which is nationwide..
----------------

As the saying goes, they are your customers. They have a choice in air travel.
 

TomBascom

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----------------
On 9/4/2002 9:05:40 PM
Same here,,talked to dozens and dozens of preferreds over the past week and not a single one mentioned or brought it up..they couldn't have been more pleasant..guess the boards have as many renegade crusader union folks(present comp. excluded) [;)] ..as they do fliers.
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I'd never bring something like that up with an ordinary employee doing their job -- nor would anyone I know. It's certainly not your fault. Even if you are being obstinate about understandng the issue. [:devil:]

It's something that needs to be taken up with Mr Baldanza et al. I might get around to it in an extended conversation with an employee if the thread somehow went in that direction but I can't think of a reason why it would. I generally want to know about things like how the plane works [;)]
 

geo1004

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Aug 22, 2002
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Yes, Reality Checked, you are wrong.

Allow me to give you the following example for next year using the LOWEST elite level in each the AA and the US programs, both "earned" at the 25,000 mile or 30 segment per year level:

US Airways will only allow you to earn elite status using refundable full fares. According to the current rules, after 1/1/03 the ONLY way to earn Silver Preferred is to fly 25,000 miles on full fares OR fly 30 segments on full fares.


AA recognizes that their are several types of loyal, frequent fliers. They reward them all and perhaps, in their minds, that is why they are the largest airline in the world. You can fly 25,000 miles on the cheapest paid fares you can find and earn their Gold AAdvantage level. If you happen to fly a combination of full and discount fares, you will earn this status a bit faster because (as you have listed in your example above) AA allows Q Points to get you to Gold AAdvantage as well. And if you happen to fly ONLY on full FC fare, you will get there even faster, perhaps after flying as little as 17,000 miles on domestic first class tickets alone.

In the end there is NO comparison between the rules US has set and the rules currently in place with ALL the other majors.

The only loudly calling "NEXT!!!" will be the agents at the other majors as they comp status to all the ex-US Silvers, Golds, and Chairmans Preferreds.
 

N305AS

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The likelihood is that all the U.S. majors will follow suit.

Why?

Since US is going to be in an exclusive codesharing agreement with UA, it's likely that UA will match them.

NW, DL, and CO are intent on the same sort of agreement, so it's equally likely that DL and NW will come on board as well.

I'm surprised that the move to match the US policy of allowing only unrestricted fares to qualify for Elite status hasn't caught on yet. This is arguably the best idea they've had so far, even though it's not popular.

Why?

Well, ALL U.S. majors would benefit from only giving their best perks to their highest-revenue customers. The last thing they need is a group of (borrowing from Tango-Bravo, here) high-cost, low-yield primadonnas with Elite cards.

Make no mistake, the airlines invest quite a bit of money in giving extra perks to their Elite members, but it's hard to make that money back when they're earning those miles on a bunch of $99.00 internet fares.

If every U.S. major were to make their Elite members earn their status on higher yield fares only, the airlines could concentrate on giving these extra perks to the members who really have earned them through their high dollar travel with the airlines.

Also, there would be no competitive disadvantage to everyone matching, since Southwest, jetBlue, and the other discount carriers do not have different Elite tiers to their programs.
 

usfliboi

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Im really surprised other than the couple on here and the intial shock at the beginning that all the airlines are following in general, that things are settling down a bit. Have very few complaints when i talk to us1 guys. Sounds like seigal based on his latest update to employess that hes standing firm by his decision.