What to do about Columbus??

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Aug 20, 2002
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AWA''s third (cough) hub...What is the future of Columbus...(AWA wise that is). Right now, you have your PHX and LAS flights, one LAX flight, MCO, and a handful of RJ''s to mostly east coast destinations. HP''s future plans as announced have had a noticable absence of the code CMH for the most part. CMH''s mayor and airport oficials pleading with AWA to add west coast flights have fallen on deaf ears (so far).
Just curious to your opinions...should AWA fish or cut bait here. Should they add routes..or spend their resourses elsewhere.
 

dfw79

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Aug 20, 2002
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Would love to see some Dash 8s get sent into CMH to rebuild feed through the hub like they did in 93-95. TOL, CAK, and SDF performed the best for them back then...and should again. FNT may do better this time around, unless they decide to route their 2 only flights through TOL again (not that it was a bad thing to have 6 daily out of TOL LOL).
 

motnot

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Aug 20, 2002
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AWA has said that it has better (i.e., more profitable) expansion opportunities in PHX. It's hard to argue with that.

Recently, the CMH-ATL service was axed again, and that seems like a key market. BOS and YYZ are getting another frequency soon, but I think CMH will see this sort of slow growth for a while.
 

UA777DEN

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Aug 19, 2002
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Supposidly, America West is going to announce CMH-DEN later this year on Mesa Air's new CRJ700s. Probably 3x daily.

I also heard that ATL will also be returning.

Regards
 

N905AW

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Aug 21, 2002
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Regardless of the size of America West's operations at Port Columbus, it is still a hub. Flights operate in banks with passengers connecting from cities in the America West system through CMH to their final destination just like in other hubs. During the 4 o'clock bank, our largest, much of the America West Express traffic is connecting traffic.

Regarding the hub's growth potential, I think the last post put it best. America West's main focus continues to be the primary hub in Phoenix, which is easily understandable given the amount of potential new cities that could be served profitably from PHX. There are many cities, especially in the Southeastern United States, that could support America West service into Phoenix. As long as this potential remains, Columbus, and Las Vegas as well, will take a back seat to Phoenix.
Of course, I would like to see increased service by America West from Columbus. As previously stated, Mayor Coleman and the Columbus Chamber of Commerce has been looking for airlines to serve cities from Columbus with high O&D numbers that are not currently served nonstop. Seattle, San Francisco, Kansas City, and Miami are all high on the list. I seriously believe that the demand does exist to warrant nonstop flights to these cities by America West, especially SFO and SEA. Our sole Los Angeles flight is constantly overbooked, and a large amount of our connecting traffic that is filtered through PHX goes to Seattle. The only problem, however, is yield. Even though CMH-LAX is high in demand, if it's full of low-fare passengers, it's not going to produce the yield that America West needs to sustain the route, which I believe is the reason we do not have nonstops to cities such as Seattle and additional service to Los Angeles. With more connecting traffic, however, maybe that could change. But that's a different story.

As for the hub's long-term viability, I believe Columbus will continue to remain an integral part of the America West system. Mr. Parker stated when he came to Columbus to celebrate the hub's 10th anniversary, that CMH does make money for the airline, and that it's future is solid. Do I think the hub will ever grow to the likes of Delta's hub in Cincinnati or USAirways' hub in Pittsbugh? Definitely not. Do I think the potential for significant growth exists in the future? Yes. Currently, passenger numbers at Port Columbus are down 6% for the year compared to the national average of 11%. Hopefully once passenger numbers return to pre-Sept. 11 levels, America West will resume the expansion plans that were to take place before the attacks. I guess time will tell.
 
OP
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Aug 20, 2002
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I understamd that PHX comes first certainly but....why AWA isnt flying CMH-MIA is a mystery to me. I've heard rumours about the DEN route on Mesa as well. I believe that a strong Port Columbus hub helps AWA immeasurably. Routes I'd like to see in the forseeable future.
CMH-DEN--Mesa
CMH-IAD--Mesa
CMH-MIA
CMH-TPA
CMH-Hamilton Ont. ( sorry ..too lazy to look up the code )--Mesa
CMH-SFO
CMH-SEA
CMH-MKE--Mesa
In theory the Mesa flights would feed the mainline. I also like TOL and FNT as mentioned earlier.
 

N905AW

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Aug 21, 2002
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I've heard the rumors floating around that America West is looking into starting DEN-CMH with CRJ-700's. However, it looks like they will remain out of Phoenix for the time being. Also, by October, all Mesa flights from Columbus should be completely replaced by Chautauqua. So I'm not sure if America West would want Mesa flying back to CMH.

As for ATL, Parker told the Columbus Dispatch that CMH should be back to a pre-Sept. 11 schedule by the end of the year, which I assume would mean the resumption of ATL and MDW flights. No news concerning those two routes either.
 

motnot

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Aug 20, 2002
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As I said before, I really think it all comes down to AWA having more profitable expansion elsewhere.

N905AW wrote:

"Regarding the hub's growth potential, I think the last post put it best. America West's main focus continues to be the primary hub in Phoenix, which is easily understandable given the amount of potential new cities that could be served profitably from PHX. There are many cities, especially in the Southeastern United States, that could support America West service into Phoenix. As long as this potential remains, Columbus, and Las Vegas as well, will take a back seat to Phoenix."

I was thinking about the Southeast recently, specifically BHM and LIT, as possible new cities for AWA. Their location makes them idea for both PHX and CMH connections. But upon further research, I found that LUV already serves both. I still think there's potential, just not as much.

CLT, CVG and MEM, all non-LUV cities and the first two with very high fares, seem to me to be the next markets for mainline. MEM-CMH on RJs would be less successful in my mind than BHM and LIT because NWAC is such a tough competitor. I think that's why there are no MSP or DTW flights to CMH (nor will be anytime soon).

But going back a bit, maybe cities like BHM and LIT would be a good strategy for CMH. Cities with no low-fare or and little if any non-stop major competition to big markets (already served from CMH) like NYC, PHL, BOS, WAS.

But I still think that AWA will and should keep most expansion at PHX for a while.
 
Aug 21, 2002
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On 8/27/2002 11:15:13 AM

Does AA and AE make a dent in the hub operation? Seeing that they compete with HP on CMH-ORD,BOS,LGA,DFW.
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All of these destinations from Columbus utilize 50-seat Embraer and a few Canadair Regional Jets. These cities are usually close to full to oversold. The frequncy of CMH-BOS flights will increase next week from 3 to 5 daily flights. Guess they don't make a dent, but then again, if not for AA and AE, perhaps AWA would be flying Airbus' to some of these cities from CMH.[::)]
 

7.5victim

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Aug 20, 2002
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Living in the region, may I shed a little light on the subject? Building north-south traffic from CMH isn't the right approach. Build on your strength, service to the WEST. The midwest already has plenty of lowfare north-south traffic. You've got AirTran setting the fares in many north-south markets, and Southwest does it in the midwest markets. HP should be building a small hub operation at CMH to poach high yield biz traffic from small midwest markets that would otherwise connect at CLE, CVG, PIT and DTW.

For example, CAK. You can get south from CAK for a good price, but you can't get west. Why not come in with 19 seaters (US is all prop to PIT and CLT, NW is prop 3/5 flights to DTW) from cities like CAK, ERI, MDT, ABE, TOL, etc. Stay out of PIT, CVG, CLE and DTW to CMH, and offer your lower fare structure as a serious East-West alternative?
 
OP
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Aug 20, 2002
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I definately like TOL and CAK to CMH. What the hell..let's upgrade those birds to Dash 8's. AWA would have to add a CMH-SFO type flt for it to be a success though. [:sun:]
 
Aug 21, 2002
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On 8/29/2002 9:22:06 PM

I definately like TOL and CAK to CMH. What the hell..let's upgrade those birds to Dash 8's. AWA would have to add a CMH-SFO type flt for it to be a success though. [:sun:]
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DH-8s are operated by Mesa which is in its final months at CMH. So that won't happen. There have been rumors that Chautauqua has some Saabs that they would like to operate as AW Express. AWA is not warm to this idea. Quite chilly to the idea, actually. However that would open some doors to smaller markets. Green Bay is what I heard being tossed around. It probably won't happen anytime soon. What AWA probably figures is that CAK people will drive to CLE or CMH and TOL people will drive to DTW or CMH.
[:(] [:(]