Alright, when do we see some announcements about additional regional jet flying? They are the supposed savior, so where are they? MDA is still some time off (until Chap. 11 emergence, which puts them March or April at the earliest, then certification issues if it is the EMB-170), PSA and maybe Piedmont have agreed to J4J, but they can't get anything until Chap. 11 emergence, so that leaves affiliate carriers. TSA, Skywest, and Chatauqua have said no from what I understand, Colgan is a non-player so far, Midway still has it's own financial issues from what I understand (looking more and more like some cheap LGA and DCA slots for the Mainline there), and ALPA has it's panties in a wad with CCAIR and Mesa Airlines. Does anyone have any clue as to when the 71st RJ comes on line? Would be awfully nice to start seeing the A319 do it's intended job rather than fly some of these 40 minute legs.
Where art thou RJs?
- Thread starter N628AU
- Start date
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
You may be in a hurry to see the RJ's on the property, but for those of us that will get burned by them with deeper cuts working for MDA it is a different story.....Don't forget that theose 40 minute legs over the past 25 years are what built the company..now all of the sudden they are worthless to the system...it won't take long for the passengers to figure out that they are on a DH-8 with jet engines on it...cramped seats on a jet commuter a/c..with the same rotten service with poverty wage employees running the show.
I wondered when someone would raise this question.
It seems to me that the start up will take longer than expected for this reason...CMR/ASA have the majority of CRJ deliveries from Bombardier for the next couple of years. COEX and AE have the same scenario at Embraer.
Where are all the airframes coming from? I know AE is transferring 14 EMB-145s to CHQ. However, I believe those are dedicated to American Connection service which CHQ operates. So far as I know, DAL isn't selling any delivery positions.
It seems to me that the start up will take longer than expected for this reason...CMR/ASA have the majority of CRJ deliveries from Bombardier for the next couple of years. COEX and AE have the same scenario at Embraer.
Where are all the airframes coming from? I know AE is transferring 14 EMB-145s to CHQ. However, I believe those are dedicated to American Connection service which CHQ operates. So far as I know, DAL isn't selling any delivery positions.
Speculation at this point seems to put the money on the EMB-170 for Mid Atlantic. But with certification not expected until the 2nd quarter of 2003 (according to the Embraer website), and the time it would take to actually start delivering aircraft, not to mention training of all personnel and FAA proving runs, it seems optimistic to expect MDA to begin ops until 3rd quarter or later. Starting ops with an interim aircraft type would seem to be a wasteful exercise in retraining when the 170s become available.
I hope the numerous comments on this and other threads about the immediate and disastrous decline in service as soon as express employees take over are motivated by frustration as much as fact. After 17 years in dispatch at an express carrier, I am well familiar with some of the problems endemic to high-turnover, low-wage labor. But I wonder if there aren't those who think none of us can do the job as well as they can. My discussions with friends at major carriers indicate similar operational problems, and you can find lazy, unmotivated employees making $30/hr. Our operating stats differ little from mainline's; we don't cancel 1 out of every 3 flights because we're too incompetent to know our jobs.
I hope the numerous comments on this and other threads about the immediate and disastrous decline in service as soon as express employees take over are motivated by frustration as much as fact. After 17 years in dispatch at an express carrier, I am well familiar with some of the problems endemic to high-turnover, low-wage labor. But I wonder if there aren't those who think none of us can do the job as well as they can. My discussions with friends at major carriers indicate similar operational problems, and you can find lazy, unmotivated employees making $30/hr. Our operating stats differ little from mainline's; we don't cancel 1 out of every 3 flights because we're too incompetent to know our jobs.
- Thread Starter
- #5
Wings...
The only thing that makes me in a hurry to see these things on the property is that our current Express fleet is killing us. Passengers do not want to fly on a Dash 8 or other turboprop anymore, regardless of what any of us say. My hurry is to stop the market share erosion our competitors continue to take from us. Look at the latest Delta Connection invasion into DCA and tell me it is not scary. My hurry is to increase revenue as quickly as possible, so we can get the Company profitable again, and on the way to recalling each and every furlouged employee. As for what made the company the last 25 years, it is what partially got us into this mess we are in. This carrier cannot operate under a system designed by large network carriers, without the network to support it. I am sorry this is not the same world we lived in 5, 10, 15, 20, or 25 years ago, but that is a fact, not my opinion. It is time to stop looking at what we did in the past, and continue to focus on what will make us successful in the future.
The only thing that makes me in a hurry to see these things on the property is that our current Express fleet is killing us. Passengers do not want to fly on a Dash 8 or other turboprop anymore, regardless of what any of us say. My hurry is to stop the market share erosion our competitors continue to take from us. Look at the latest Delta Connection invasion into DCA and tell me it is not scary. My hurry is to increase revenue as quickly as possible, so we can get the Company profitable again, and on the way to recalling each and every furlouged employee. As for what made the company the last 25 years, it is what partially got us into this mess we are in. This carrier cannot operate under a system designed by large network carriers, without the network to support it. I am sorry this is not the same world we lived in 5, 10, 15, 20, or 25 years ago, but that is a fact, not my opinion. It is time to stop looking at what we did in the past, and continue to focus on what will make us successful in the future.
ALPA MEC Update - MidAtlantic Airways Status Report October 4, 2002
On Thursday, September 27, 2002, two MEC members, Paul DiOrio (BOS) and Paul Hocking (DCA), along with MidAtlantic Negotiating Committee member Roy Freundlich (PHL), met with MidAtlantic Airways pilot management to receive an update on the status of MDA’s certification progress and plans for startup. This meeting was arranged per MEC Chairman Chris Beebe’s direction, and coordinated with the MDA Negotiating Committee and MDA’s pilot management.
MDA Flight Operations Management
Attending the meeting for MDA: Michael Scrobola – MDA Director of Operations and Frank Blazina – MDA Chief Pilot.
Michael was previously a captain at Allegheny Airlines. He was hired by Suburban in 1982 (which subsequently merged with Pennsylvania Commuter Airlines in the 1990s to form Allegheny), and worked his way through a series of flying positions from first officer through director of operations. Michael resigned from Allegheny to take the Director of Operations position at MDA On Thursday, September 27, 2002, two MEC members, Paul DiOrio (BOS) and Paul Hocking. Frank Blazina was hired by Pennsylvania Airlines in 1984 as a first officer and checked out as captain in 1986. He later held positions of check airman and supervisory pilot. Frank left Allegheny Airlines to join US Airways (mainline) in February 2000 and is currently furloughed. Both pilots held ALPA positions during their commuter airline service.
Certification Procedure and Progress MidAtlantic Airways, Inc. was formed using the Potomac Air FAA Certificate. Since the Potomac Certificate was restricted to a maximum aircraft certified seating capacity of 60 seats, MDA has re-filed to obtain certification to operate up to the 76-seat small jet authority provided in the Restructuring Agreement.
The FAA approval process for startup operations is also underway. This is administered by the FAA’s Certification Standardizing Evaluation Team (CSET). CSET is relatively new certification process (approximately two years). It involves a detailed, regimented review of operating manuals and procedures.
Although, US Airways Group (which includes MDA) is operating under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code, MDA will seek to satisfy the financial feasibility criteria of the certification process. Accordingly, MDA will likely not attempt to secure financial arrangements for new aircraft while in Chapter 11. This restricts progress for FAA certification.
Writing the required operating manuals for FAA certification is a demanding, time-consuming task. Factoring in the uncertainty of possible multiple aircraft types adds to the complexity. Once US Airways emerges from bankruptcy and a small jet order(s) is secured, the certification process and startup timeline can be determined.
Startup Timeline
The Company indicated in a recent press release that it will announce a recovery plan in December 2002 and expects to emerge from bankruptcy around March 2003. It is unlikely that MDA will announce or initiate startup operations until after US Airways Group emerges from Chapter 11. As a result, the startup date of MDA is not likely to occur before spring 2003.
Fleet Plan/Staffing
It is still unknown what type(s) or how many aircraft are planned, or how soon MDA will receive aircraft. MidAtlantic pilot management hopes the airline will obtain aircraft quickly and hopes the fleet will ultimately exceed 100 small jets.
Commuter airline industry staffing models indicate 8.6 to 9 pilots per aircraft. MDA will initially need more pilots per aircraft because of the training requirements to commence operations and fill vacancies per an aircraft delivery schedule.
Training should initially take place in Houston if ERJs are purchased and in Montreal if CRJs are purchased. All training is expected to eventually be moved in-house to PIT.
Pilots will initially be based in PIT. Other domiciles would be considered based on US Airways marketing needs and the airline’s expansion plans.
MDA started with five employees and currently employs approximately 20 people. MDA is currently taking applications for check/instructor pilots. Although they do not know how many check pilots they will ultimately need for start up, management estimates the number could approach 15-20. If you are interested, please email your resume to [email protected].
In conclusion, the startup time, fleet size, aircraft type, crew bases, and route network of MidAtlantic Airways will depend on several unresolved factors. The most influential factor is US Airways’ emergence from Chapter 11. Once out of bankruptcy, MDA will likely ramp-up very quickly. The ultimate size, route structure, crew base location and pilots hired will be driven by marketing needs and aircraft deliveries.
On Thursday, September 27, 2002, two MEC members, Paul DiOrio (BOS) and Paul Hocking (DCA), along with MidAtlantic Negotiating Committee member Roy Freundlich (PHL), met with MidAtlantic Airways pilot management to receive an update on the status of MDA’s certification progress and plans for startup. This meeting was arranged per MEC Chairman Chris Beebe’s direction, and coordinated with the MDA Negotiating Committee and MDA’s pilot management.
MDA Flight Operations Management
Attending the meeting for MDA: Michael Scrobola – MDA Director of Operations and Frank Blazina – MDA Chief Pilot.
Michael was previously a captain at Allegheny Airlines. He was hired by Suburban in 1982 (which subsequently merged with Pennsylvania Commuter Airlines in the 1990s to form Allegheny), and worked his way through a series of flying positions from first officer through director of operations. Michael resigned from Allegheny to take the Director of Operations position at MDA On Thursday, September 27, 2002, two MEC members, Paul DiOrio (BOS) and Paul Hocking. Frank Blazina was hired by Pennsylvania Airlines in 1984 as a first officer and checked out as captain in 1986. He later held positions of check airman and supervisory pilot. Frank left Allegheny Airlines to join US Airways (mainline) in February 2000 and is currently furloughed. Both pilots held ALPA positions during their commuter airline service.
Certification Procedure and Progress MidAtlantic Airways, Inc. was formed using the Potomac Air FAA Certificate. Since the Potomac Certificate was restricted to a maximum aircraft certified seating capacity of 60 seats, MDA has re-filed to obtain certification to operate up to the 76-seat small jet authority provided in the Restructuring Agreement.
The FAA approval process for startup operations is also underway. This is administered by the FAA’s Certification Standardizing Evaluation Team (CSET). CSET is relatively new certification process (approximately two years). It involves a detailed, regimented review of operating manuals and procedures.
Although, US Airways Group (which includes MDA) is operating under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code, MDA will seek to satisfy the financial feasibility criteria of the certification process. Accordingly, MDA will likely not attempt to secure financial arrangements for new aircraft while in Chapter 11. This restricts progress for FAA certification.
Writing the required operating manuals for FAA certification is a demanding, time-consuming task. Factoring in the uncertainty of possible multiple aircraft types adds to the complexity. Once US Airways emerges from bankruptcy and a small jet order(s) is secured, the certification process and startup timeline can be determined.
Startup Timeline
The Company indicated in a recent press release that it will announce a recovery plan in December 2002 and expects to emerge from bankruptcy around March 2003. It is unlikely that MDA will announce or initiate startup operations until after US Airways Group emerges from Chapter 11. As a result, the startup date of MDA is not likely to occur before spring 2003.
Fleet Plan/Staffing
It is still unknown what type(s) or how many aircraft are planned, or how soon MDA will receive aircraft. MidAtlantic pilot management hopes the airline will obtain aircraft quickly and hopes the fleet will ultimately exceed 100 small jets.
Commuter airline industry staffing models indicate 8.6 to 9 pilots per aircraft. MDA will initially need more pilots per aircraft because of the training requirements to commence operations and fill vacancies per an aircraft delivery schedule.
Training should initially take place in Houston if ERJs are purchased and in Montreal if CRJs are purchased. All training is expected to eventually be moved in-house to PIT.
Pilots will initially be based in PIT. Other domiciles would be considered based on US Airways marketing needs and the airline’s expansion plans.
MDA started with five employees and currently employs approximately 20 people. MDA is currently taking applications for check/instructor pilots. Although they do not know how many check pilots they will ultimately need for start up, management estimates the number could approach 15-20. If you are interested, please email your resume to [email protected].
In conclusion, the startup time, fleet size, aircraft type, crew bases, and route network of MidAtlantic Airways will depend on several unresolved factors. The most influential factor is US Airways’ emergence from Chapter 11. Once out of bankruptcy, MDA will likely ramp-up very quickly. The ultimate size, route structure, crew base location and pilots hired will be driven by marketing needs and aircraft deliveries.
Embraer Sees Bad Year In 2003; Orders To Resume In 2004
WASHINGTON (Aviation Daily) - The year 2003 will be “bad†for regional aircraft sales, Embraer’s Executive VP-Airline Market Fred Curado, said in an interview with the DAILY.
He believes airlines will not start placing significant orders until 2004, but he hinted at Embraer’s good order backlog. The manufacturer will stick to its plans to deliver 145 aircraft in 2003.
Curado confirmed Embraer is in talks with US Airways about a possible RJ deal, probably “the last opportunity for a big order.†He is convinced the airline will emerge from Chapter 11 “much healthier†and could become a viable “super-regional.â€
In Curado’s view, the current slowdown is not only due to economic conditions. He highlighted that “the 50-seater bubble is coming down,†ending a period of large orders for aircraft of the category. Natural growth will start in two to three years, he estimated. Also, at this time airlines will start ordering replacement aircraft for early 50-seaters, he said.
Curado noted airlines could use the new bigger regional jets entering the market as effective hub feeders, lowering unit costs in their efforts to fend off no-frills carriers. Those rivals “are the No. 1 issue†for Embraer’s clients, “so obviously they are a concern for us.â€
WASHINGTON (Aviation Daily) - The year 2003 will be “bad†for regional aircraft sales, Embraer’s Executive VP-Airline Market Fred Curado, said in an interview with the DAILY.
He believes airlines will not start placing significant orders until 2004, but he hinted at Embraer’s good order backlog. The manufacturer will stick to its plans to deliver 145 aircraft in 2003.
Curado confirmed Embraer is in talks with US Airways about a possible RJ deal, probably “the last opportunity for a big order.†He is convinced the airline will emerge from Chapter 11 “much healthier†and could become a viable “super-regional.â€
In Curado’s view, the current slowdown is not only due to economic conditions. He highlighted that “the 50-seater bubble is coming down,†ending a period of large orders for aircraft of the category. Natural growth will start in two to three years, he estimated. Also, at this time airlines will start ordering replacement aircraft for early 50-seaters, he said.
Curado noted airlines could use the new bigger regional jets entering the market as effective hub feeders, lowering unit costs in their efforts to fend off no-frills carriers. Those rivals “are the No. 1 issue†for Embraer’s clients, “so obviously they are a concern for us.â€
autofixer
Veteran
As part of my $850 round-trip day trip to Philly yesterday, I got to spend 2 hours on a sewerpipe with jet engines PHL-GSO. Such a lovely ride...narrow seats, but they were leather...noisy, but it was a jet...one hour late, but it was Philly. Oh how I long for those F28s.
There are now five Jets For Jobs (J4J) airlines:
MidAtlantic
PSA
Allegheny
Piedmont
Midway
Per the ALPA restructuring agreement, there will be no further RJ flying for any airline unless they agree to J4J.
Chip
MidAtlantic
PSA
Allegheny
Piedmont
Midway
Per the ALPA restructuring agreement, there will be no further RJ flying for any airline unless they agree to J4J.
Chip
- Thread Starter
- #11
This does nothing to get the needed RJs online. 4 are wholly owned, which means no jet orders until after emergence, and then the wait for delivery positions. Then Midway, who has no financing.
Chip said: Per the ALPA restructuring agreement, there will be no further RJ flying for any airline unless they agree to J4J.
Black Wind said: as trans states is busy with ex eagle rj's and chataqua is expanding in fla for delta do you realy think they care anymore?
Chip answers: Probably not, but nor does US. The company has five J4J operators and with the exception of Midway, at this point will keep all additional RJ flying in-house. This will provide greater RJ opportunity for US Group employees. By the way, Jonathan Ornstein has said he expects Mesa to become involved. In the case of Trans States & Chautauqua, they lose additional flying and revenue opportunities.
Chip
Black Wind said: as trans states is busy with ex eagle rj's and chataqua is expanding in fla for delta do you realy think they care anymore?
Chip answers: Probably not, but nor does US. The company has five J4J operators and with the exception of Midway, at this point will keep all additional RJ flying in-house. This will provide greater RJ opportunity for US Group employees. By the way, Jonathan Ornstein has said he expects Mesa to become involved. In the case of Trans States & Chautauqua, they lose additional flying and revenue opportunities.
Chip
ITRADE
Veteran
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/11/2002 3:38:44 AM N628AU wrote:
[P]This does nothing to get the needed RJs online. 4 are wholly owned, which means no jet orders until after emergence, and then the wait for delivery positions. Then Midway, who has no financing.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]I have to agree with you on this...[/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/11/2002 3:38:44 AM N628AU wrote:
[P]This does nothing to get the needed RJs online. 4 are wholly owned, which means no jet orders until after emergence, and then the wait for delivery positions. Then Midway, who has no financing.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]I have to agree with you on this...[/P]
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/11/2002 2:37:43 AM chipmunn wrote:
[P] [/P]
[P][BR]Per the ALPA restructuring agreement, there will be no further RJ flying for any airline unless they agree to J4J.[BR][BR][/P]
[P]----------------[/P]
[P][STRONG]as trans states is busy with ex eagle rj's and chataqua is expanding in fla for delta do you realy think they care anymore?[/STRONG][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/11/2002 2:37:43 AM chipmunn wrote:
[P] [/P]
[P][BR]Per the ALPA restructuring agreement, there will be no further RJ flying for any airline unless they agree to J4J.[BR][BR][/P]
[P]----------------[/P]
[P][STRONG]as trans states is busy with ex eagle rj's and chataqua is expanding in fla for delta do you realy think they care anymore?[/STRONG][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
- Thread Starter
- #15
[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/11/2002 11:02:04 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip answers: Probably not, but nor does US. The company has five J4J operators and with the exception of Midway, at this point will keep all additional RJ flying in-house. This will provide greater RJ opportunity for US Group employees. By the way, Jonathan Ornstein has said he expects Mesa to become involved. In the case of Trans States & Chautauqua, they lose additional flying and revenue opportunities.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
I ask again, how does this get us needed RJs any faster? Answer: it does not. More flying in-house is nice, but if it cannot be done in a time frame that helps with the immediate revenue problems, it will cost more jobs at the mainline as we wait for Chapter 11 emergence before securing delivery slots. This all means nothing as Delta, CoEx, and Eagle continue to expand in our markets.
----------------
On 10/11/2002 11:02:04 AM chipmunn wrote:
Chip answers: Probably not, but nor does US. The company has five J4J operators and with the exception of Midway, at this point will keep all additional RJ flying in-house. This will provide greater RJ opportunity for US Group employees. By the way, Jonathan Ornstein has said he expects Mesa to become involved. In the case of Trans States & Chautauqua, they lose additional flying and revenue opportunities.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
I ask again, how does this get us needed RJs any faster? Answer: it does not. More flying in-house is nice, but if it cannot be done in a time frame that helps with the immediate revenue problems, it will cost more jobs at the mainline as we wait for Chapter 11 emergence before securing delivery slots. This all means nothing as Delta, CoEx, and Eagle continue to expand in our markets.
