I just finished reading the post regarding the comparison between CO and US and it made me wonder about a few things. We have posts on here from employees located throughout the country and in various positions, all pointing fingers. East is pointing the finger at the West and they're both pointing fingers at PHL. Inhouse REZ is pointing fingers at the outsourced call centers, and the list goes on and on, I think you get the picture. So, what I'm wondering is who are these terrible employees since we're all claiming it's not us. Is it us? Do we need to maybe do some self reflection on how we handled a passenger? Could we have handled it differently? While we can't change the sandcastle and their mentality, we can change ourselves. Could we possibly be a little nicer or more compassionate when we're delivering the unwanted news to a passenger? Couldn't that agent in REZ have spent 5 minutes looking for the passenger's ticket? I don't want to be sappy or drag on and on, but maybe instead of complaining maybe we can do something positive and little by little turn this sinking sandcastle around.
Who are these employees?
- Thread starter happy01
- Start date
vantheman63
Senior
As a traveling pax who spends in excess of $50K a year, I travel on most everyone and see a number of things.
My first "overall observations" are, the US Airways "product" has become the worst product in aviation. BUT, the majority of us traveling folk understand it's Sandcastle Stupidity and the fact the professionals that make up US have not received the tools they need to do a good job.
I myself am AMAZED in my conversations with travelers how, in my talks and discussions with many, many people, many of which don't really know me, who say, "do you have to fly US? I heard they are awful now" or something along those lines. The conversation normally arises because people ask what I do....I tell them, it obviously requires travel and the conversation begins. Let me promise everyone on these boards reading this and working for US....your product is considered rock bottom, the worst, by lots of people. The fact US leads the industry in complaints is no accident by any stretch.
Those of us who know better, who have been traveling and know a little about the industry know and understand it's not the fault of the front-line people.
On the flip side, the airline companies I like, and that happen to score well in "Consumer Reports" performed by many, many "polls" are ususally YX, CO and WN believe it or not. And these companies have a few things in common.
First and foremost is, their corporate culture is set up so that employees are #1 in terms of "who gets taken care of first." At WN, there have been books written on the subject and you can Google "Colleen Barrett" and see speaches she's given and find that ALL THROUGH her thoughts.
Second, there are a great number of considerations given to pax...and they aren't considered or treated like "the enemy."
Finally, in taking care of #'s 1 and 2, the stockholders and investors come 3rd and are also taken care of. The culture is such that well run companies understand the dollars will come with happy customers....and happy customers are as a result of happy employees. Management's roll is to clear roadblocks and obstacles and to provide tools so everyone can get to the goal.
US has done it all wrong...and has more or less kicked the VFF and "High Yiled" pax out the door. They have show indifference to their employees...and goodness knows you all don't have many, if any tools. The "product" itself is now no where CLOSE to what's offered by the competition, especially for VFFers and high yeild pax.
I'll make CP again this year....like I have in past years....because I just fly a ton. I pretty much stopped flying US in July when it became clear the Sand Castle was waging an all out war on VFFers. I stopped being as eager to book on US when the fare structure changed in that F-Class is non refundable...which is stupid, NO ONE offers "non-refundable" fares in F. Then there was the stripping of and reduction of F Class....Calzones galore, etc. And I of course love the Sand Castle supidity saying, "Envoy is messed up because the old US was financially troubled." Meanwhile, it took the jackasses in Tempe about 3 weeks to destroy the A321 F-Class fleet....and A320s.
I moved my flying to CO....they comped me "Platinum" in their program, their highest level...and I'm close to earning it legitimately as I've moved nearly all my "preferred first choice" travel to CO. The product is WAY better, no comparison, the employees are happy and friendly...and I feel like I'm getting much more of my money's worth.
Look, before "customers can be treated right" and before "you can change yourselves," the corporate culture at US has to change. Rigth now, you have people at the top of that company who don't care about you....they CERTAINLY don't care about pax and I'd dare say, they don't care about themselves....only the investors receive any sort of stroking...and I promise you, as a business owner, that's not sustainable in the long run.
I personally think the employees that made up US East are some of the greatest people in the business. I've known many of you/them personally for YEARS as a "Priority Gold Plus" customer years ago. I have nothing against "westies" because I don't know them and don't know the old HP corporate culture. I only flew the old HP twice prior to the merger. Because of my overall faith in human kind, I'd bet the ranch the "Westies" are also some great and awesome folk....
But when you are not treated as such, its not good.
The fact that DP is content to let pilots operate the company under one FAA cert but as separate groups speaks volumes to the basic flaws and overall stupidity...and lack of respect this management team has towards its employees. If I were in charge, that would stop AT ONCE. Part of me believes the management team lacks the talent and knowledge on how to get it done, another part believes that this team just has no value or respect for anyone, not even themselves. As a business owner myself, I would never, ever, ever treat others with the obvious contempt this management team has for it's employees and customers. It's obvious "the beatings will continue until the attitude changes" is the mantra of Doug Parker and team.
The fish rots from the head....until the corporate culture is changed, I believe I'll continue avoiding US like I would avoid ebola.
JAMAKE1
Veteran
Excellent post! Truer words have never been spoken. The corporate culture will likely not change as long as those currently in charge at the top, remain. As you stated, this management team simply lacks the talent and knowledge. And I will add to that, the sophistication. The companies that I patronize as a consumer have invested in equipping their front line employees with the tools to get things done. And you're one hundred percent correct: Upper management should be working to eliminate the roadblocks and obstacles so that the tone and vision set by them, which is to provide execellence in customer service, can be executed with precision at the very front line. Additionally, when the collective feels valued, appreciated, and empowered...and an atmosphere of excellence in internal customer service is the rule of the day within the corporation, the employees will go above and beyond for the external customer. And oddly enough, NONE of this is rocket science, yet few companies seem to embrace this thinking.
vantheman63
Senior
Thus the problem we have with a rotted corporate culture....
"US Airways employees are paid JUST enough so they won't find other jobs."
"US Airways employees do JUST enough to not get fired."
Meanwhile, the product becomes sub par....and the customers suffer.....while US Airways management continues to charge top dollar.
And then there are two fixes....."beat" the employees, lower customer expectations....or start treating employees the right way.
They've opted for "the beatings." Sadly.
vantheman63
Senior
Yeah....I agree....at least in aviation...but it's starting to become more common place thinking in aviation. CO, WN and YX have definitely adopted the "employees first" mentality....and getting them the tools they need, removing road blocks, clearing obstacles.
The "top down" thing will not work in American Society any more. The days are done, gone and over. Bottom up is the way things are done now.
This petri dish known as US Airways where the product has been stripped to levels as bad if not worse then WN....while running a "top down" corporate culture will be interesting.
Management may be thinking, "there are enough pax that will accept the abuse and substandard product in exchange for a cheap ticket" and they may be right.....be interesting to see.
Elevation
Veteran
- Oct 21, 2002
- 869
- 32
The more pay = better CS is a lie. A raise will make everyone happy for a few months but guess what they will fall back into their old habits again. Its much more than money, look around having no people skills and surly attitude cannot be fixed with $2.50 more and hour.
vantheman63
Senior
I agree.....
It's more then money....money is not everything.
It's an overall culture.
If you don't believe that, then you have to be able to explain how employees are "satisfued" (not necessarily happy) at CO, WN and YX.
Corporate culture is to workplace happiness like "terroir" is to wine....its a combination of a number of factors. And frankly, one of those "factors" is weeding the people out that don't want to be part of the team.
When a company pays bottom of the barrel, it's hard to get a handle on who is a true team player and who isn't.
And the disturbing thing is US Airways has a VP of Culture.....CO WN etc do not.
Makes me wonder exactly what the VP of Culture does.
vantheman63
Senior
Am I reading this right?
HOW ON EARTH WOULD A PERSON WHO IS PAID, VERY WELL, TO MANAGE CULTURE NOT KNOW THERE ARE ISSUES HERE?
Holy smokes....right when you think you've seen and heard it all....
Then again, that person's job could be to impart a "Top Down" culture and not "let the inmates run the assylum." I've seen that tactic employed as well.
How on EARTH did HP deal with this culture? Or is it new?
Now I'm hugely confused.
We are paid enough?
Maybe Full TIme- it certainly ISNT PART TIME..
Most of US have second JOBS until something better comes in-people that I work with say, all companies are getting this way?
How stupid and BRAINDEAD are these people?
There ARE BETTER JOBS< There Are perks> Get off your dead @ss and look for them..
Use your swaps,,use THE COMPANY FOR BENNIES> BLEED THEM AND MAKE $$$elsewhere..
THIS IS A GO NO WHERE< PAY NOTHING DO /NOTHING COMPANY!
- Thread Starter
- #13
More pay doesn't deliver better customer service. We'd still have these "morons" with us, but they'd be paid more right along with us. Would $2 an hour more have made that rez agent find the passenger's unused ticket referenced in the CO US customer service comparison? I think we all know the answer to that. My point was we could deliver better customer service. WN isn't a luxury airline, but their people are nice and deliver extraordinary customer service. I agree that I am truly underpaid and that I'm just not paid enough to put up with this bull @#$%, but I knew what the job paid when I took it. I agreed to do my job for that amount of pay, and everyday I do my best to do my job and be nice to the passengers. Yes, I'd like to rip their heads off and tell them they made the mistake but it just isn't professional or acceptable. So, we can't fix the sand castle and we can't make them pay us more but I can do an outstanding job everyday and make damn sure that no complaints go to the DOT because of me.
Since I started the thread comparing CO to US, let me add a point or two from my conversations with CO management.
They brought up the philosophy of priorities before I could....like Van mentioned, they told me their priorities are EMPLOYEES FIRST, CUSTOMERS SECOND, shareholders third....take care of 1 and 2 and 3 will fall into place.
Another comment which was made during a Q & A with Larry Kellner and Jeff Smisek (imagine Doug and Scott HOSTING a party and meeting with 400 of their customers...NOT) was that they needed to fully fund the employee pensions, and they were looking for ways to reverse the pay cuts which were needed after 9/11--and would plan their expansion with that in mind.
While pay and $$ is not the only ingredient to this formula, the difference in corporate culture is night and day. What you have in CO is a management team who actually WANTS to run a world class airline, and has the talent and knowledge to do so, and do it well. Then you have the Sand Castle.....if they ever took their heads out of their spreadsheets and actually worked on making things better, they'd have a chance. I just can't wait to see the numbers from the next 2 quarters when they realize how many high rollers have left.....
And you wonder why I BOUGHT 2 Business First tickets on CO to Europe rather than burn miles on US????? I refuse to reward stupidity and dishonesty.
They brought up the philosophy of priorities before I could....like Van mentioned, they told me their priorities are EMPLOYEES FIRST, CUSTOMERS SECOND, shareholders third....take care of 1 and 2 and 3 will fall into place.
Another comment which was made during a Q & A with Larry Kellner and Jeff Smisek (imagine Doug and Scott HOSTING a party and meeting with 400 of their customers...NOT) was that they needed to fully fund the employee pensions, and they were looking for ways to reverse the pay cuts which were needed after 9/11--and would plan their expansion with that in mind.
While pay and $$ is not the only ingredient to this formula, the difference in corporate culture is night and day. What you have in CO is a management team who actually WANTS to run a world class airline, and has the talent and knowledge to do so, and do it well. Then you have the Sand Castle.....if they ever took their heads out of their spreadsheets and actually worked on making things better, they'd have a chance. I just can't wait to see the numbers from the next 2 quarters when they realize how many high rollers have left.....
And you wonder why I BOUGHT 2 Business First tickets on CO to Europe rather than burn miles on US????? I refuse to reward stupidity and dishonesty.
Hey happy do you know what it takes to find and associate a pass date ticket to future travel in QIK/SHARES.If so tell us agents and the success rate of doing so
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