Who's Johnny?

[2BlacknBlue]

Who's Johnny? All the other employees that are non-union?


"At the union meeting, Moak, wearing a starched white shirt, sketched out his view of the industry. An ex-Marine who is the son of a Marine, he did not hesitate to invoke his Corps pedigree. He also invoked his time as a Little League coach, indicating his disdain for the prevailing concept that every kid must play, no matter how good or bad he is. To Moak, the concept is a metaphor for weakness and whining, which are displayed when pilots complain rather than act. "We need to improve the pay and working conditions of Delta pilots," he remarked. "We're not about letting Johnny play, letting Johnny go to bat. We can't do that.""

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalys...n/10393653.html

 

[Alice Cramden]

Who's Johnny? All the other employees that are non-union?


"At the union meeting, Moak, wearing a starched white shirt, sketched out his view of the industry. An ex-Marine who is the son of a Marine, he did not hesitate to invoke his Corps pedigree. He also invoked his time as a Little League coach, indicating his disdain for the prevailing concept that every kid must play, no matter how good or bad he is. To Moak, the concept is a metaphor for weakness and whining, which are displayed when pilots complain rather than act. "We need to improve the pay and working conditions of Delta pilots," he remarked. "We're not about letting Johnny play, letting Johnny go to bat. We can't do that.""

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalys...n/10393653.html

Johnny is a weak, whiner employee, union member or not. Hey batter, batter......swing!

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Who's Johnny? All the other employees that are non-union?

I actually had a pilot the other day tell me: "You F/A's really need a union, but we don't want you to have one."
Because we were boarding and getting ready for the flight, I didn't have a chance to ask him what exactly he meant by that.
Any pilots care to comment?

 

[2BlacknBlue]

"I actually had a pilot the other day tell me: "You F/A's really need a union, but we don't want you to have one."
Because we were boarding and getting ready for the flight, I didn't have a chance to ask him what exactly he meant by that.
Any pilots care to comment?"


I'm not a pilot but anyone that has been around DAL since ALPA contract 2000 knows exactly what is meant by it! Simply put...the company will throw your pay and benefits under the bus to fulfill the contractually legal bargaining agreement that the airline signed with the pilots. The ALPA contract 2000 year saw the pilots receive a hefty increase in pay, but then CFO Michele Burns put ALL the merit (supervisory/administrative) employees on pay freeze. DAL merit employees still have yet to receive a performance step increase in pay, and this is calendar year 2007!

Lemons could not have been more bitter!

 

[brokenwrench]

“Johnny is a euphemism for smaller weaker airlines. His point being that just because there are mergers, if it is not with a strong partner who brings something to the table, why play em?â€￾

In other words, just because you are throwing an airline CEO says he wants his chance to play in the merger game, if he can not bring anything of value to the new entity, i.e. routes, equipment or say a strong balance sheet, then Johnny gets to stay on the bench!

 

[NYCDelta]

I actually had a pilot the other day tell me: "You F/A's really need a union, but we don't want you to have one."
Because we were boarding and getting ready for the flight, I didn't have a chance to ask him what exactly he meant by that.
Any pilots care to comment?

I have a pretty good idea. As I have stated on here before, a pilot once said "there's only so much of the pie to go around". THAT is precisely why they don't want FA's having a collective bargaining agreement.

 

[757inthebarrel]

I have a pretty good idea. As I have stated on here before, a pilot once said "there's only so much of the pie to go around". THAT is precisely why they don't want FA's having a collective bargaining agreement.

I don't think that's it at all. I think DL FA's get treated with kid gloves by the company precisely because they are non-union and that's the way the company wants to keep them. Of course that's not to say there haven't been painful cuts in the last several years but that's industry-wide unless you work at SWA. The only reason I can think of that pilots would not be whole-heartedly for other employees to unionize is because when there is a union work action by one group all employee groups are usually affected. That's life though. I think pilots want all groups at DL to be the best compensated and well-treated groups in the industry. I know I do.

My question is why the AFA and not an in-house union ala SWA? They seem to be the best compensated and happiest group in the industry. It's true that they've been profitable while others haven't but the AFA didn't stop groups at US, United, and NW from being dragged under the bus. Merger protection? Just a question. Not sure if I buy the "more political influence argument either." I haven't seen it. Is there a possiblility the company may offer some incentives to the group to go "in-house" if they see the union writing on the wall since in-house unions typically have a better working realtionship with the company? Anyway, I for one, am happy to have the group we have working with me everyday. I've been at a couple airlines and I wouldn't trade the DL FA group for anyone's. The best of the season to all.

 

[jimntx]

My question is why the AFA and not an in-house union ala SWA?

SWA flight attendants are represented by the TWU- Transport Workers Union--a member of the AFL-CIO just as is the AFA. It is AA's f/as that are represented by an in-house union--the APFA. I don't think you could say that we all "seem to be the best compensated and happiest group in the industry." 😱

 

[757inthebarrel]

SWA flight attendants are represented by the TWU- Transport Workers Union--a member of the AFL-CIO just as is the AFA. It is AA's f/as that are represented by an in-house union--the APFA. I don't think you could say that we all "seem to be the best compensated and happiest group in the industry." 😱

Thanks. Guess I could have done some research on that but I figured since the pilots were in house (SWAPA), the FAs would be as well. Do you think you would have been better off with the AFA or TWU representing you?

 

[jimntx]

Thanks. Guess I could have done some research on that but I figured since the pilots were in house (SWAPA), the FAs would be as well. Do you think you would have been better off with the AFA or TWU representing you?

I don't really know. My friends who are f/as at Delta and Frontier--neither of which has a union--seem to be happier these days than any of us who are represented (with the noted exception of the SWA f/as). I'm not sure that it has anything to do with union vs non-union. I think it more that the representation we have was not willing to go to the mat with the company, and the company knew that going into the concessions negotiations back in 2003.

If you look at what the union has gotten for the particular group of f/as, then it would be TWU all the way. However, I know that a lot of AA employees who are represented by the TWU are NOT happy with their representation.

I don't see that the AFA has done much more with their representation than the APFA did for us. Mostly scare tactics of "this is the best we could do." And, in our case, "if you don't vote for these concessions then the company will go into bankruptcy and it will be much worse."

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I don't think that's it at all. I think DL FA's get treated with kid gloves by the company precisely because they are non-union and that's the way the company wants to keep them. Of course that's not to say there haven't been painful cuts in the last several years but that's industry-wide unless you work at SWA. The only reason I can think of that pilots would not be whole-heartedly for other employees to unionize is because when there is a union work action by one group all employee groups are usually affected. That's life though. I think pilots want all groups at DL to be the best compensated and well-treated groups in the industry. I know I do.

My question is why the AFA and not an in-house union ala SWA? They seem to be the best compensated and happiest group in the industry. It's true that they've been profitable while others haven't but the AFA didn't stop groups at US, United, and NW from being dragged under the bus. Merger protection? Just a question. Not sure if I buy the "more political influence argument either." I haven't seen it. Is there a possiblility the company may offer some incentives to the group to go "in-house" if they see the union writing on the wall since in-house unions typically have a better working realtionship with the company? Anyway, I for one, am happy to have the group we have working with me everyday. I've been at a couple airlines and I wouldn't trade the DL FA group for anyone's. The best of the season to all.

With all due respect, your post is so off the mark, I don't know where to begin. Delta FAs treated with kid gloves? That's pretty funny!! Maybe the senior ATL based f/a's. That would be about it.
Why not an in-house union? It's been hard enough getting all 12,000 on the same page with AFA. Most Delta f/a's are apathetic. They come to work, often times moan and complain, but then go home and forget about their complaints until the next trip, then go home, forget, go to work, complain, go home, forget, back to work, complain.....an endless cycle.
The company offer an incentive "to go inhouse"??????? What are you smoking?? A union is a union is a union. The company doesn't want it no matter which one it is.

 

[MMB]

I don't think that's it at all. I think DL FA's get treated with kid gloves by the company precisely because they are non-union and that's the way the company wants to keep them. Of course that's not to say there haven't been painful cuts in the last several years but that's industry-wide unless you work at SWA. The only reason I can think of that pilots would not be whole-heartedly for other employees to unionize is because when there is a union work action by one group all employee groups are usually affected. That's life though. I think pilots want all groups at DL to be the best compensated and well-treated groups in the industry. I know I do.

Either you're smoking something you shouldn't, or you think everyone else is.
Not saying they should, but Delta pilots don't give a second thought to any other group, and have in fact insisted on receiving the whole pie on more than one occasion. In BK, DALPA threatened to shut the company down before they would accept the cuts the rest of the employee groups got. For the cuts they did take, they insisted on some pretty hefty payback.
Other than the threat of putting everyone else out of work, they never mentioned anyone else.

 

[700UW]

The IAM represents FAs at CO and they are highly paid also.

 

[jimntx]

The IAM represents FAs at CO and they are highly paid also.

Thanks for mentioning that. And, I might add they also seem to be happy for the most part. I know several CO f/as. I don't know whether it was the company or the union or both working together, but let me also add that not a single CO f/a (off new-hire probation) has been furloughed since 9/11 either.

 

[brokenwrench]

The IAM represents FAs at CO and they are highly paid also.

How did the IAM represented TWA F/A's makeout?