Why do the rabbis even care?

Garfield1966

Veteran
Apr 7, 2003
4,051
0
Texas
It's the popes right (as I understand it) to do what he wants in this regard. It sure as hell has nothing to do with the Jews. Not sure why it's such a big deal what they believe or want to pray about. Given that it has been 2,000 years and still has not worked I'm thinking "give up already" but what ever.

The pope could authorize the belief in the tooth fairy and snipe hunting for all the difference it would make. Why do people get so up-tight about crap that has nothing to do with them?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/us/09prayer.html
 
The ADL's Letter to Pope Benedict on Good Friday Prayer:
January 22, 2008


His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI
Vatican City, Italy

Your Holiness:

We write you urgently to express our profound concern over news reports regarding the imminent announcement of a revised Good Friday prayer for the Conversion of Jews that would replace the 1962 Roman Missal text.

While these media reports state that the offensive language of veils and blindness are to be discarded in the supposed new formulation of this Good Friday prayer, they report that the framework and intention to petition God for Jews to accept Jesus as Lord will remain.

Alterations of language without change to the 1962 prayer's conversionary intent would result in cosmetic revisions while leaving intact the most troubling aspect for Jews, namely the desire to end the distinctive Jewish way of life. We do not understand how such an action could be consistent with the teachings and actions of the Catholic Church that began with Nostra Aetate and developed in numerous authoritative Catholic documents ever since. It is also hard to understand how a Good Friday prayer that for centuries was universally accepted as expressing the hope for Jewish absorption into Christianity could now be understood as being related to Catholic prayers for their own internal change of heart or teshuvah, as some news reports imply.

We wholeheartedly agree with your message delivered at the Roonstrasse Synagogue of Cologne on August 19, 2005 when you said: “We must come to know one another much more and much better. Consequently I would encourage sincere and trustful dialogue between Jews and Christians, for only in this way will it be possible to arrive at a shared interpretation of disputed historical questions, and, above all, to make progress towards a theological evaluation of the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. This dialogue, if it is to be sincere, must not gloss over or underestimate the existing differences: in those areas in which, due to our profound convictions in faith, we diverge, and indeed precisely in those areas, we need to show respect for one another.â€￾

However we think that a revised Good Friday prayer that Jews abandon their own religious identity, as being reported in the news media, would be highly devastating to the deepening relationship and dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Jewish people. That is why we hope these news reports have totally mischaracterized the nature of the expected revised prayer. We hope the reports are wrong and that any revised Good Friday prayer will instead show the same respect for the integrity and the continuity of Jewish religious life that has prevailed in the Catholic Church since the Second Vatican Council.

Your Holiness, before any revisions to the Good Friday prayer are promulgated, we respectfully ask you, in the spirit of dialogue, for the opportunity to consult with the appropriate Vatican authorities to learn what it is the church is teaching by these changes and create a common understanding.
Sincerely,

Abraham H. Foxman
National Director

The bottom line is that the revised prayer calls for the conversion of the Jews. It is offensive because it is a vivid reminder of long past centuries of forced conversions and a lingering incomprehension of the Jewish faith.
 
I agree 100% it is offensive. So is the KK and the Neo-Nazis (no, I’m not equating them with the catholic church) but I do not see what good it would to ask them to change their view point. The wording is reflective of how they view the jews. Nothing new under the sun. The rewording just makes it sound a ‘little’ better but the underlying concept is still very much evident.

Seems like futile effort to change religious dogma. I am quite clear on the catholics church stance on jews. They helped Nazis escape to S America to avoid prosecution after WWII. They have quite a few artifacts ‘received’ during WWII of questionable origin. And the church did virtually nothing to halt the persecution of the jews or any other persecuted group.

The catholics obviously do not have an issue with the wording. I just find it interesting that the rabbis want to ‘make nice’ with a entity that at best has only paid lip service to the jews through out history.
 
To me, it is more ironic that they are arguing over such things... because in the grand scheme of things, the majority of both groups believe that the *other* group is going to some type of hell unless they convert.
 
I just find it interesting that the rabbis want to ‘make nice’ with a entity that at best has only paid lip service to the jews through out history.


The Jew's have issues over Christ....last time he was here for a visit they didn't recognize him and crucified him. :eek: They've been pondering this for some time now.Christ is a sticky subject.
 
The thing I don't understand is why do people in general believe that the pope(a catholic) represents Christians as a whole? Catholics are the most off-base Christians when it comes to The Holy Bible. Yet Christianity is based on their delusional beliefs because most ex-Christians originated as Catholics.

There are different views when it comes to religion and politics. Some hold their faiths and beliefs dear to them while others fail to see the 'big deal'.
 
The thing I don't understand is why do people in general believe that the pope(a catholic) represents Christians as a whole? Catholics are the most off-base Christians when it comes to The Holy Bible. Yet Christianity is based on their delusional beliefs because most ex-Christians originated as Catholics.

There are different views when it comes to religion and politics. Some hold their faiths and beliefs dear to them while others fail to see the 'big deal'.

Tell me which part of this is off base:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.

Now...I'm not so much a "fallen away" Catholic as a "driven away". I have fairly big differences in their views on divorce and birth control, and I don't much care for their politics - especially when they bend their own rules when "guiding" members how to vote. But just because they don't shake their hands in the air and speak in tongues during services, they are no less "Christian" than any other faith that believes in Jesus.
 
The catholics obviously do not have an issue with the wording.
The wording only reinforces the motive of bigoted behavior such as this:

Haaretz - Vilnius Catholics derogatorily portray Jews in holiday parade
[excerpts]
During Carnival - or Uzgavenes, as it is known in Lithuania - Catholics from around the world congregate for a feast of foods prohibited during Lent. The festival usually involves a parade or circus, with attendees in masks and costumes. But in Vilnius - commonly known to Jews as Vilna - participants traditionally dress and act "as Jews," a feat that generally calls for masks with grotesque features, beards and visible ear locks and that is often accompanied by peddling and by stereotypically Jewish speech. Perhaps even more shockingly, the "festivities" extend beyond the parade itself and into a Halloween-style trick-or-treating. When Simonas Gurevicius, the 26-year-old executive director of the Jewish Community of Lithuania, opened the door to his house during last year's Uzgavenes, he was greeted by two children dressed in horns and tails, reciting a song that translates as, "We're the little Lithuanian Jews/We want blintzes and coffee/If you don't have blintzes/Give us some of your money." (It rhymes in Lithuanian.)

"They understand it as Halloween, a time to have fun and adventures," Gurevicius said. "On the one hand, it is important to respect the traditions of the country. On the other hand, psychologically it stays in their brain: The image of the Jew will be closely associated with the image from the festival."

Last Saturday, hundreds gathered in front of city hall in the capital to celebrate. The Web site of the Vilnius City Municipality promised that during Uzgavenes, which is an official holiday in Lithuania, "creatures wearing different masks - devils, witches, deaths, goats, Gypsies, and other joyful and scaring characters - hang around." Claiming to be dressed as a Jew, one woman tried to convince spectators to buy dirty handkerchiefs.

Although typical costumes include farm animals and monsters, masquerading is sometimes broadly referred to as "eiti zydukais," or "going as Jews," regardless of how one dresses.

Last Friday, Vilnius's Center of Ethnic Activity hosted an exhibition of Uzgavenes masks and screened archival footage of past celebrations. Masks of Jews were displayed between those of witches and animals, and shown with no apparent compunction to cultural delegates from Latvia and Denmark. In a video shot in Vilnius last year, a man dressed as a Jew carrying a briefcase full of toilet paper haggled with cab drivers as he led a group of people made up as beasts through the streets.

Ethnologist Inga Krisciuniene, who works at the Centre of Ethnic Activity, led the event, explained how she believed that in earlier times, Jews and Gypsies dressed alike. Revelers wore the same mask on Uzgavenes to depict them, so that the characters were distinguishable only by performers' actions. When asked whether it could be seen as offensive to mock these minorities, Krisciuniene replied, "No one has ever complained." The intent, she said, is humorous.
 
To me, it is more ironic that they are arguing over such things... because in the grand scheme of things, the majority of both groups believe that the *other* group is going to some type of hell unless they convert.


I am probably as jewish light as it gets but I am pretty sure the jews do not believe in an after life. If they do, no one ever mentioned it in hebrew school when I was a kid. I always thought the jews believed in the old test and the christians in the new (backwards compatible?). Jews do not proselytize so I do not think they really care what other think. They like other religions think they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Signals,

Aren’t catholics the majority? They seem to be the largest number of ‘christians’ so they become the defacto standard bearer. Better the catholics than the babtists. Those folks are nuts.

Last time I checked it was the Romans who killed him, not the Jews. Regardless, it was 2,000 years ago. Get over it.
 
Tell me which part of this is off base:



Now...I'm not so much a "fallen away" Catholic as a "driven away". I have fairly big differences in their views on divorce and birth control, and I don't much care for their politics - especially when they bend their own rules when "guiding" members how to vote. But just because they don't shake their hands in the air and speak in tongues during services, they are no less "Christian" than any other faith that believes in Jesus.


Ahh but yes they are 'less' christian than other faiths that believe in Jesus. To Catholics their true foundation is 'The Virgin Mary' mother of GOD. Jesus is second fiddle to her unless combined with God and The Holy Spirit. You assume I speak in tongues...hahaha!

With religion either you are committed or are just a fence dweller. Either you believe 100% or come up with rules as you go along.

If that is the way you practice religion and claim to be driven away, then the Bible as a whole was NOT written for you because it is foolishness to you, as it claims. I was a Catholic and have been to the Vatican many times(big deal...unless you were a believer)and have found many fallicies to their beliefs. Someday we'll talk about the Friday fish hang-up!!! :lol:
 
Assuming what you say is true (I honestly don’t care who killed him or why) the bottom line for me is that it was 2,000 years ago and I would argue that it is tome to get the hell over it. Holding an entire religion hostage for 2,000 years seems a bit out of wack. After all, had someone not killed him, you would probably not have a religion. Martyrs always make better poster boys.

This hatred of the jews by the christians is in large part what justified using the jews at targets and scapegoats during WWII. The old jews are evil, jews control everything BS propagated by people who think the jews wacked Jesus.


Your pictures crack me up.
 
I am probably as jewish light as it gets but I am pretty sure the jews do not believe in an after life. If they do, no one ever mentioned it in hebrew school when I was a kid. I always thought the jews believed in the old test and the christians in the new (backwards compatible?). Jews do not proselytize so I do not think they really care what other think. They like other religions think they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Jews do believe in an afterlife... just not the type of afterlife that Christians do. The "bad" people go to Gehenna.
 
After all, had someone not killed him, you would probably not have a religion. Martyrs always make better poster boys.

Not only that, but since most Christians believe that Christ died for EVERYONE's sins, then Signals', Delldude's and my sins were the figurative hammer that dealt the final blow of the nails in his hands.

We killed him Delldude.