Will Tilton listen?

[aircraft_artificer]

After what was said in yesterdays vote one has to wonder if Tilton will listen. United has a long history of knee jerk reactions. it will be interesting to see if Tilton will step and say Maybe I have a problem here that needs to be fixed. For two decades now airlines have said times are bad we need the employees to help fund bailing us out. When times were good however they never said Thanks and here is a reward for your sacrifice. Does anyone really doubt for one minute that if they had done this in the past people would not rally to try to help the company. When times got good however they gave management huge raises and bonuses, the people that sacrificed got NOTHING. They made promises and broke them repeatedly. This is not just United but ALL airlines. Is this good business sense? Now they are standing there with their silver spoon out saying fill it or else. The mechs. finally said enough is enough we choose or else over trying to fill the bottomless silver spoon. Tilton is being lied to by those that are in charge of the maint. division. If he took time to talk with mechs.(without management around) all of the mechs not just suckasses he would soon realize this. Even he knew in the oil industry how important it is to have reliable equipment in good working order. This only happens when it is properly maintained. The shoddy maint. being done on Uniteds aircraft at the chop shops will and can only lead to more incidents like the one in Chicago this past week, and that is if the luck continues it could easily have been worse.
We shall soon see if, as the company says, logical and sensible thought prevail.

 

[mastermechanic]

Wide-eyed and bushy tailed sir

 

[mastermechanic]

I did...and it was NO!!!!

 

[UnitedChicago]

Great! Grab him while he's awake and make him vote!

 

[UnitedChicago]

Remember mastermechanic...you're invited over for dinner too! As long as the T/A is ratified and the loan granted.

I'm a good cook!

 

[ual06]

The real question is will the mechs wake up.

 

[aircraft_artificer]

Helloooooo McFly. You obviously did not see what was in front of your eyes. OK back to the KISS system.

FIX THE SCREWED UP MANAGEMENT THAT THE MECHANICS ARE UNDER !!!

STOP Sending our work to vendors(chop shops) to lay us off IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE CONTRACT !!!

Show us a meaningful business plan, not just how much you want from us. One that gives me back what I will put in IN PLAIN ENGLISH WRITING with no back door out clauses.

SEE IT IS ACTUALLY PRETTY SIMPLE. To much to ask? Then we can keep the answer to a two letter word.

 

[AirplaneFan]

But the bottom line question is "Will UAL make it, without concessions?". You all make it sound like you have been sacraficial lambs, but you are paid the highest wages in an industry known for paying high wages. But you keep trying to claim the moral high ground that management has not kept promises they made to you.[BR][BR]So you will force the company into bankruptcy, wipeout your own equity holdings and in the end get a deal forced on you by the courts that will be much tougher than what you would get outside the courts.

 

[aircraft_artificer]

There comes a time when any man will say enough is enough. Well that time has come. Fix what got United in this mess in the first place, then ask for help.

 

[atabuy]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/28/2002 7:24:47 PM aircraft_artificer wrote:

Helloooooo McFly. You obviously did not see what was in front of your eyes. OK back to the KISS system.

FIX THE SCREWED UP MANAGEMENT THAT THE MECHANICS ARE UNDER !!!

STOP Sending our work to vendors(chop shops) to lay us off IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE CONTRACT !!!

Show us a meaningful business plan, not just how much you want from us. One that gives me back what I will put in IN PLAIN ENGLISH WRITING with no back door out clauses.

SEE IT IS ACTUALLY PRETTY SIMPLE. To much to ask? Then we can keep the answer to a two letter word.

----------------
aircraft_artificer
Would you understand a meaningful business plan?
I guess what I am saying is you are turning down 7.4% to put the company in BK and then you lose your potential with your Esop shares, your retro, and seats on the board. They could give you much more back than what you are giving up. I can't see how you are even qualified to judge any plan.

 

[BeenThere]

Tell you what!

Give me the raise that the pilots received FIRST, then the mechanics will gladly give back 18%

 

[Boomer]

atabuy,
You continue to reference the EFLOP shares; the IAM started selling them off at rock bottom prices weeks ago.

As far as whether BK will result in any better deal, the gains that could be made with regard to total abrogation of the IAM Mechanics contract will have to be measured against the real possibility that vindictiveness will lead directly to a strike and shutdown.

Could UAL go in and honor everyone elses' 1113 letter while simultaneously raping the Mechanics? Sure. Would they do that knowing the reprecussions it would bring? Highly Unlikely.

As for contracting out everything; read the last several editions of AWST publication: Maintenance & Overhaul. There is not enough capacity at the third party vendors to accomodate an airline the size of UAL nor are there enough Technicians out there to replace the IAM.

Even if there were, the Maintenance Program under which each air carrier operates is individual to that carrier and is the product of "one-off" negotiations between the Carrier and the FAA.

Simply replacing one UAL/IAM mechanic with another mechanic off the street won't work much the same way that finding someone from another carrier that flies 757's doesn't give you another checked out UAL 757 pilot the same day; albeit at nowhere near the same costs.

In short, all the things that some angry posters have said they hoped would happen could in fact happen; however, the probability is small and diminishes further in proportion to the cash reserves. UAL and the Mechanics have to come to an acceptable position because the costs incurred with vindictiveness would doom the carrier.

But I'm just a wrench, I should probably just do what I'm told.

 

[mancityfan]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/29/2002 818 AM BeenThere wrote:

Tell you what!

Give me the raise that the pilots received FIRST, then the mechanics will gladly give back 18%
----------------
[/blockquote]

BeenThere,

Which part of the pilots deal did you like? The part where we got an inflation adjustment or the part where we give back almost three times as much as you are even being asked to?

I am not sure if any of you guys can read THROUGH the crap that makes it to the papers, but just in case, the numbers you have read were for a contract that was supposed to return us to non-ESOP rates AND compensate us for the 4 years of Contract 2000! That is 21% for the term of the ESOP (although there were other pay changes, such as lower guarantee, that IMMEDIATELY made that 3.85% LESS than 21%!!), and then gave us 4-4.5% raises for the next 4 years. That's the MASSIVE 40% that keeps being touted, but it was meant to pay us or over 11 years of raises (which is a COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENT!) and immediately took 3.85% of ALL of those raises!

I, personally, would have a received a 2.87% ANNUAL RAISE for the period of 1993-2004. THAT is the reality of the pilot's contract that was touted as forcing the airline to lose buckets of money. THAT is not USA Today crap reporting, nor union propaganda from the other unions at UAL. THAT, my friend, is the cold hard numbers from someone looking at the REAL CONTRACT and REAL PAY STUBS. If you think you have ANY retort to FACTS, I am all ears. Until then, I just want to let you know, I am about to take an 18% pay cut that will turn into a 37% pay cut when I get bumped from the Captain's seat of the 737 to the First Officer's seat on the 767. Kinda makes that 7% look like peanuts, doesn't it? And I think the Judge will feel the same way!

IF, and WHEN, you read the facts, maybe it will provide you with REAL info instead of the breakroom dross from would be AMFA unionists who are about to ruin your life and the lives of about 70,000 other UAL employees.

Take it out, wipe it off, and use it to look around, get the facts about BK and the future of UAL, and let me know what you think.

I wait with baited breath.

mancityfan

 

[atabuy]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/29/2002 11:31:27 AM Boomer wrote:

atabuy,
You continue to reference the EFLOP shares; the IAM started selling them off at rock bottom prices weeks ago.

As far as whether BK will result in any better deal, the gains that could be made with regard to total abrogation of the IAM Mechanics contract will have to be measured against the real possibility that vindictiveness will lead directly to a strike and shutdown.

Boomer,
I just question anyone looking for a business plan, who is willing to lose their own money. I don't think you guys could figure out a plan with the paranoia around here.

This is a straight forward money concession that if not accepted and we are thrown into BK will lead to the demise of your group as you know it, unless now you all become MBA's and figure it out.

You know who will get the stinky end of this stick don't you?
The guys who are the stupidest. Not by seniority, The stupidest.
If the contract is abrogated, this means no contract. This means when members are called back to work it will be by company choice instead of seniority.
I think Ual will cull out the stupidest that are still here and bring back the better mechanics first.
No = stupid.
Vindictive = too emotional.
Just an opinion.
ps. I don't know how many stupid positions are available on the outside.
Maybe the emotional can get some work with Jerry Springer. No interview needed. Just call and use the keyword no!

 

[wts54]

18% cut now plus all the raises...


Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association
("ALPA") and ratified by the ALPA membership. The
agreement amends the United pilot collective
bargaining agreement (as amended, the "Pilot
Agreement") to reduce the pilots' hourly pay rates by
18% effective the first day of the pay month following
the satisfaction of the aforementioned conditions (the
"Effective Date") and to cancel 4.5% increases in
hourly pay rates scheduled for each of May 1, 2003 and
May 1, 2004. These increases are to be replaced with a
4.5% increase on November 1, 2004, a 4.5% increase on
May 1, 2005, a 4.5% increase on May 1, 2006 and a 6.9%
increase on May 1, 2007.