Wings Alliance joins SkyTeam

AirplaneFan

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Aug 20, 2002
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I don't think this will fly. You can't have the 3rd, 4th and 5th carriers all selling tickets and exchaning information with each other. This would put AA and SW at too much of a disadvantage.
 

luv2fly

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Aug 21, 2002
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On 8/22/2002 10:51:29 PM

I don't think this will fly. You can't have the 3rd, 4th and 5th carriers all selling tickets and exchaning information with each other. This would put AA and SW at too much of a disadvantage.
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Why not? We are going to allow U and UA to codeshare under bk protection with government loans. Why shouldn't the playing field be leveled out?
 

DLFlyer31

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 8/22/2002 10:51:29 PM

I don't think this will fly. You can't have the 3rd, 4th and 5th carriers all selling tickets and exchaning information with each other. This would put AA and SW at too much of a disadvantage.
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If its just a marketing agreement/codshare, there is no exchanging of information (just like UA/US). They are not revenue sharing, coordinating schedules or exchanging traffic info...that would be a more full-blown alliance requiring DOJ and DOT approval.

It's a long shot that this will happen. I don't think the DOT will like it and the DL/NW pilots (whose approval is required) aren't going to be thrilled either. On the international side, the EU is likely to have problems with it also. It's already been said that NW,DL and CO might be doing this to scare off the DOT from approving the UA/US codeshare. The DOT just announced they want more time to review UA/US....how convenient.

I don't think SW has anything to be afraid of. They have enough of a cost advantage that this alliance wouldn't harm them. AA is another story, but they're big enough to fend for themselves.
 

FA Mikey

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Aug 19, 2002
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As for the pilots, they should look around at some of our other competitors who have asked for deep wage concessions. DL/NW/CO are only asking to codeshare. In light of the current industry troubles, pilots should be thankful that management isn't asking for more.
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A typical Delta employee response. Give them what they want, and be happy they didnt ask for more. A little FYI theres a big difference between the happenings of U and UAL and that of whats going on at DAL.
 

DAL764

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Aug 20, 2002
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I don't think the gov't will have any problem with the agreement. The three carriers will still continue to independantly schedule, price, and revenue manage to compete against each other. All this does is provide the following:

· Codesharing - All three airlines will codeshare on each other’s route networks.

· Frequent Flyer Reciprocity - Customers will be able to accrue and redeem awards in any of the three airlines’ frequent flyer programs regardless of which program they belong to or on which airline they fly.

· Airport Lounge Reciprocity - Customers will be able to participate in each airline’s airport lounge program.

· Convenient Schedule Connections - While the three airlines will continue to schedule their respective flights independently, each will evaluate their schedules to optimize convenient schedule connections between the carriers.

· Coordination of Airport Facilities - Customers will gain the opportunity for seamless ticketing, check-in and baggage handling.

As for the pilots, they should look around at some of our other competitors who have asked for deep wage concessions. DL/NW/CO are only asking to codeshare. In light of the current industry troubles, pilots should be thankful that management isn't asking for more.
 

luv2fly

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Aug 21, 2002
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On 8/23/2002 10:02:28 AM

As for the pilots, they should look around at some of our other competitors who have asked for deep wage concessions. DL/NW/CO are only asking to codeshare. In light of the current industry troubles, pilots should be thankful that management isn't asking for more.
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A typical Delta employee response. Give them what they want, and be happy they didnt ask for more. A little FYI theres a big difference between the happenings of U and UAL and that of whats going on at DAL.
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Easy there Mikey. I think your biased opinion about DL employess is just a little broad and ill-defined. Most of the pilot group at DL is very clued in to Leo's union busting tactics. This deal is dead in the water without ALPA approval and is not subject to FM.
 

nwa400

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Aug 28, 2002
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Mike, tell me the down side of this code share. Maybe I am blind but I believe this would be a good deal all around. At least it would give 3,4&5 a little better footing against the big boys. Comments anyone?[:sun:]
 

DVT

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Aug 21, 2002
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[[/quote]
Easy there Mikey. I think your biased opinion about DL employess is just a little broad and ill-defined. Most of the pilot group at DL is very clued in to Leo's union busting tactics. This deal is dead in the water without ALPA approval and is not subject to FM.
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[/quote]

Luv;
ALPA will end up trading their approval for codeshare for some sort of staged recall and a J4J deal involving new airplanes of 90-100 seats. They have to, their position is too weak relative to the company. We will soon know.
 

DLFlyer31

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 8/30/2002 11:23:22 AM
Luv;
ALPA will end up trading their approval for codeshare for some sort of staged recall and a J4J deal involving new airplanes of 90-100 seats. They have to, their position is too weak relative to the company. We will soon know.
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Well, the DL pilots could be hard-*sses and refuse to negotiate. I don't think their position is that weak.

However, if DL offers them a recall plan along with a nice order of 100 seaters in exchange for a domestic codeshare alliance, it would seem like a reasonably fair. Compared to what the U/UA pilots are facing, its not that big of a sacrifice.
 

DVT

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Aug 21, 2002
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On 8/30/2002 12:02:30 PM

Well, the DL pilots could be hard-*sses and refuse to negotiate. I don't think their position is that weak.

However, if DL offers them a recall plan along with a nice order of 100 seaters in exchange for a domestic codeshare alliance, it would seem like a reasonably fair. Compared to what the U/UA pilots are facing, its not that big of a sacrifice.
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My point is that the DL MEC is in no position to be hardass. They need to show some positive results after their FM defeat. They know the FM appeal will lose. If they can save face by getting some of their furloughed guys back to work (it will mean giving the shaft to the DCI guys) they will let the company go ahead with the Alliance codeshare deal.
 

luv2fly

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Aug 21, 2002
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On 8/30/2002 1:02:03 PM

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On 8/30/2002 12:02:30 PM

(it will mean giving the shaft to the DCI guys) they will let the company go ahead with the Alliance codeshare deal.
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I wouldn't call a 24% increase in growth last year, getting the shaft. I call getting furloughed while DCI carriers continue to enjoy unprecedented growth, getting the shaft. Which would you prefer?
As far as the codeshare, nobody knows exactly what managment has to offer in order to get DALPA's approval. Everything mentioned has been sheer speculation. There have been rumors of 100 seat aircraft but nothing confirmed. Management has been tight lipped on any information. That will have to change before any codeshare is approved.
 

Busdrvr

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 8/23/2002 8:14:48 AM

SW at a disadvantage? SW just cut walk-up fares 25%. That puts the inefficient carriers at a disadvantage.
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Why do you think SWA cut fares? They out of the goodness of thier hearts decided that grandma should be able to come visit cheaper? They don't think anyone should pay more than 20 bucks to fly coast to coast in a multimillion dollar jet at 500 mph? Or maybe, just maybe, they aren't getting the response to the new c to c flying they had hoped to get? If they really thought 399 was "too much to pay" they'd be sending out refund checks. if you were paying much more to fly DAL, AMR or UAL to get a FC seat and better service, would the fare getting cut at SWA by a few bucks? If you drive a mercedes, would you run out and trade it in for a Yugo if they lowered the price by "up to" 25%? The change was a marketing gimic and affects only about 1% of the Fares.
 

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