Www.savingoursouthwest.com

[evan]

Wondering what's going on with the contract negotiations between Southwest Airline's Flight Attendants and CEO Jim Parker? Check out this site!

www.savingoursouthwest.com

 

[Fly]

good link, thanks. The graphs are a little goofy (highest preparing for departures?!?...well, of course, they do short haul flying. You can't very well depart to Tokyo 5 or 6 times in one day) but the rest is pretty accurate. They aren't "far below the industry standard" in wages either (actually one of the highest paid), but hey, who's counting? I still am amazed that LUV would take so much time getting these people a decent contract. Does management EVER learn?

 

[KCFlyer]

Wondering what's going on with the contract negotiations between Southwest Airline's Flight Attendants and CEO Jim Parker? Check out this site!

www.savingoursouthwest.com

Is it just me, or does a new hire flight attendant (which appears to be the focus of this websites "obscenely low" pay) really think they'll be back home with their families every night? Heck...I thought one of the alluring parts of this job was the travel.

Fly...would you be so kind as to tell us how much UAL F/A's make while they check-in one hour before our flight leaves, while they are boarding and deplaning customers, if there is a delay at the gate, and during scheduled ground time?

 

[Fly]

Fly...would you be so kind as to tell us how much UAL F/A's make while they check-in one hour before our flight leaves, while they are boarding and deplaning customers, if there is a delay at the gate, and during scheduled ground time?

Sure! Let's see UAL f/a's make $0.00 when they check in one hour (and one and a half hour for international flights) before a flight. UAL f/a's make $0.00 for boarding AND deplaining customers. Hmmm, oh yea, and for delay's at the gate they make a whopping $0.00. Ground time, well again $0.00 for ground time. In fact, UAL f/a's ONLY get paid for flight time...none for tidying between flights, none for boarding, none for deplaning, none for briefings, none for sits (which can get quite long lately) between flights either. It stinks but it's easy to compute how much we make!

 

[orangeman]

Sure! Let's see UAL f/a's make $0.00 when they check in one hour (and one and a half hour for international flights) before a flight. UAL f/a's make $0.00 for boarding AND deplaining customers. Hmmm, oh yea, and for delay's at the gate they make a whopping $0.00. Ground time, well again $0.00 for ground time. In fact, UAL f/a's ONLY get paid for flight time...none for tidying between flights, none for boarding, none for deplaning, none for briefings, none for sits (which can get quite long lately) between flights either. It stinks but it's easy to compute how much we make!

Fly, Does a UA F/A clean the planes between flights? Does a UA F/A receive Holiday Pay? How much does a UA F/A make/hour at say, New hire-5yrs.-10yrs.-15yrs. seniority? I even mean after concessions!

 

[KCFlyer]

Sure! Let's see UAL f/a's make $0.00 when they check in one hour (and one and a half hour for international flights) before a flight. UAL f/a's make $0.00 for boarding AND deplaining customers. Hmmm, oh yea, and for delay's at the gate they make a whopping $0.00. Ground time, well again $0.00 for ground time. In fact, UAL f/a's ONLY get paid for flight time...none for tidying between flights, none for boarding, none for deplaning, none for briefings, none for sits (which can get quite long lately) between flights either. It stinks but it's easy to compute how much we make!

Fly, Does a UA F/A clean the planes between flights? Does a UA F/A receive Holiday Pay? How much does a UA F/A make/hour at say, New hire-5yrs.-10yrs.-15yrs. seniority? I even mean after concessions!

orangeman...I've watched AA f/a's cross seat belts and pick up trash from the seats...and this was when THEIR contract was being negotiated....so yes, I'd say that it's not uncommon for FA's at othe airlines to "clean the plane".

And since the union is pushing (heavily) the "starting wage", perhaps an FA at some other airlines can post what the starting wage is for their FA's? And maybe an SWA FA could post the pay that has been proposed by the company? I mean, it's hardly fair to post 5, 10 and 15 year pay rates from one airline, and just the first year pay at Southwest. Then maybe someone at another airline could chime in on the "fairness" of the SWA proposal.

 

[KCFlyer]

I was thinking over breakfast...the FA's have been in "negotiations" for over 2 years. The word "negotiate" implies give and take from both parties. So what would be really interesting is to see the following:

1. Your current contract
2. Your unions demands
3. The company's proposal(s).
4. The unions counter proposals.

Something tells me that the very first response for "paid ground time" was something along the lines of "when hell freezes over". Was any type of counterproposal presented by the union, or was their response to order up even more "Working for free is just plane nuts" signs? Did the union have any specific demands for starting pay? If so what were they? And what was the companies response? And did the union offer any counterproposal to that, opther than mis-stating the starting numbers to the Philly press? I recall that when TWU 555 was negotiating for the rampers, they posted their current contract, managment's proposal, and their response. They pretty much seemed to keep their members informed...and they had it all on a website that wasn't "password protected" so that interested parties could see it.

 

[Fly]

UAL f/a's are required to tidy on certain routes (not all routes as is required at Southwest) Or course, this makes sense though.....I can't see me possibly "tidying" an aircraft after I land in HKG (The planes are trashed and were walking zombies) I'm going to go dig out a contract and post the f/a pay for new hire, 5, 10, and 15 years. Be back soon!

 

[SWAFA30]

This issue has already been discussed on this forum in the past ad nauseam.

 

[KCFlyer]

This issue has already been discussed on this forum in the past ad nauseam.

SWAFA30 - yes, it has been discussed ad nauseum. However, savingoursouthwest.com is putting it out there again for discussion. But I haven't seen anywhere just exactly what the union is demanding....and what the company has countered with. Just that "Parker" (who will remain CEO even after a contract is reachec) is "screwing" us. If your union leadership wants to enlist some support from outside the union ranks, then they might start by demonstrating how they have been negotiating. So far it seems that they've been pretty active in misquoting starting pay rates to the press and sliding flyers under hotel room doors. Hope they at least included a USA Today or Wall Street Journal with their flyers.

 

[Fly]

ok...here's what I found.

UAL

per diem $1.75

Paid Holidays - 5 (New Year, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, XMas, and Birthday

f/a portion of medical - 12% to increase 2% each year until it reaches 20%in2008
($97.22 p month right now)

Actual Duty Times - 14:30 actual if duty starts between 0500 - 1859
13:00 actual if duty starts between 1900 - 0459

if a trip screws up they must have you back within 24 hours of original schedule for domestic and 36 hours for international (this is fun, you don't get paid any extra for losing that extra day and half...not a dime, unless you fly more actual)

Vacation is paid at 2.8 hour per day of vacation (not paid for the trip)

Reserves get 11 days off per month

Duty rigs - 5/10/15/20

downtown hotels on 20 hour layovers or more! hmmmm, lots of airport stuff there

ok...here it is: The Pay Schedule

Domestic Hourly Wage Charts

Year 1 $19.03

Year 5 $24.94

Year 10 $37.75

Year 15 $40.97 (thats cap....you can NEVER make more than that...ever)

So how about a SW f/a post the differences: I know I'm curious.

Also....no match to 401K at all...none and NO profit sharing

We pay service fees to fly at United....its free (according to their webpage) at LUV

As I stated earlier, we are required to tidy sometimes but definitely not all the time as is required at LUV. We do not get paid until we push.....and thats the only time we get paid (so all the 2 and 3 hour sits between our 4 legs a day are unpaid too)

 

[KCFlyer]

Year 1 $19.03

Year 5 $24.94

Year 10 $37.75

Year 15 $40.97 (thats cap....you can NEVER make more than that...ever)

So how about a SW f/a post the differences: I know I'm curious.

Also....no match to 401K at all...none and NO profit sharing

Here's what I gleaned from information that has been posted. These are company proposals. I haven't been able to find any union proposals or counterproposals. This is pay only

These would be as of 6/1/2004

1st year (new hire) - $20.01
2nd year - $22.16
3rd year - $23.33
4th year - $24.50
5th year - $26.20
6th year - $27.80
7th year - $29.77
8th year - $31.82
9th year - $33.96
10th year - $39.16
11th year - $40.22
12th year - $41.19
13th year - 17th year $44.81

I believe they also offered retro pay and a $2.15 per diem. This apparently constitutes "screwing" the FA's.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

KC:

Are those figures (20.01 starting pay etc etc) per hour or per TFP?

I bet they are TFP.

And if they are TFP, the hourly rate looks even better.

I like FA30. I like all the FAs. They do a real good job.

But I don't like union misrepresentation and union posturing to make themselves look ruff-n-tuff at the expense of the union members.

How many WN FAs got furloughed after Sept 11th?

How many WN FAs have missed a profit sharing check in the last 10 yrs?

Like I tell all the FAs when I thank them for the flight (5 in the last 2 weeks)

Take the money. Don't argue work rules, you can't win. Take the money. Southwest has always had folks who work hard and play hard and get compensated okay. Don't piss on the electric fence. Just smile and take the money.

 

[Tanker]

Another thing that SWA offered the F/A was to give them the same duty rigs as the pilots with the provision that they could be scheduled for a max 13 hour duty day (as the pilots can be) but the F/A union said that the max day that they wanted was 10 1/2 hours.

 

[Fly]

I wish I could have max 10.5 hour duty days too. Very rarely see days that are less than 12 anymore.