30 day cooling off explanation

[Maark767]

You seem to know all the specifics regarding what the unions are asking for? Could you please be specific regarding the APFA. I am a member and I would like to know. Is the APFA willing to increase the monthly max to reduce costs ? Are we willing to combine domestic and international to provide cost savings? Are we willing to allow new hires to not have a defined pension and go to a 401K match? Are we willing to not have crew meals reinstated? Have we given up longevity pay? Have we given up reserve override? How about galley pay on 757's? Night pay? Did we give up the pre vacation 48? Would base pay go back to 67 hours instead of 70? Are we demanding expense money to go back to 1.75/2.05 for domestic and international? Are we going to get our uniform points back? Has the APFA been willing to give up any of these items to get back the core issues of rates of pay, vacation and sick time? I would like to know what we are demanding! You seem to know. Tell me? Or are you just ignorant of how negotiations work and keep on repeating the unions "restore and more" and have an inside mole telling you that the APFA has not made any concessions?

Wow ... Very well said...
It hurts to think of all we gave up and now what hurts even more is that the company wants more. They have the public believing that we deserve less. I wish some of these people on this blog could see and feel what we gave up and even better , adapt what we gave up and equate it to their careers. I'd like to see their faces ....

 

[iluvaa]

You might already have an agreement if you weren't demanding snap back, restore and more, etc. Why would a company agree to something that will bankrupt it? If it gives you everything and more back since 2003, APA and APFA will DELETED BY MODERATOR: profanity. And then AA files Chapter 11 and you lose your pensions and possibly your jobs.

What part of that don't you understand? Make a deal somewhere between your two positions and move on.

You truly are clueless the TWU which I dont really like offered such a watered down POS that angered there own members and the company didnt even answer. So please get your facts right, the restore and more is old news, the company wont give ANYTHING

 

[Veritas]

Is the APFA willing to increase the monthly max to reduce costs ? Are we willing to combine domestic and international to provide cost savings? Are we willing to allow new hires to not have a defined pension and go to a 401K match?

If the monthly maximum is increased and/or international and domestic are combined to increase productivity and provide cost savings, there will not be any new hires for many years to come. It will only result in more furloughs and a longer recall list. That is probably why AA reported that it reached an agreement with the union for unlimited recall for flight attendants who are currently furloughed and anyone senior to them.

Flight Attendant Negotiations News: Issue 1

Article 16 – Reduction in Force
-> The main item on which the parties agreed concerning this article is to extend unlimited recall rights for flight attendants whose names appeared on the recall list as of October 2, 2009. Additionally, in no case shall a senior flight attendant furloughed after October 2, 2009, have a recall period shorter than a more junior flight attendant.

 

[jersey777]

The company has "guaranteed" that there would not be any furloughs associated with raising the monthly max. Also, the latest proposals from the company show that they want to increase the monthly max in increments in my guess to allow attrition to handle any overage. (haven't we heard this before). I agree that we will not have new hires for years and years to come. If people think we are old and tired now then wait till 2020. I will be 55 then! Ouch.

 

[Winglet]

The company has "guaranteed" that there would not be any furloughs associated with raising the monthly max.

You're naive if you actually believe that. The company can attribute a furlough to any number of things and do what they want.

AA is spoiling for a fight and wants to make an example of either the TWU or the flight attendants. AA isn't going to negotiate ANYTHING. They're going to dictate. Arpey sees this as his chance to break the unions at AA. There are plans right now to run a short FA training course, hire scabs, and use management to staff flights in any event of a disruption.

So far, they are being highly successful at bringing the unions to heel.

AA does not think that ANY of the unions have the stones to seriously challenge them in a bare knuckles fight.

 

[jersey777]

I am not naive and I don't believe any promises from American Airlines. They lie and they parse words.


"AA is spoiling for a fight and wants to make an example of either the TWU or the flight attendants. AA isn't going to negotiate ANYTHING. They're going to dictate. Arpey sees this as his chance to break the unions at AA. There are plans right now to run a short FA training course, hire scabs, and use management to staff flights in any event of a disruption."


In 1993 they used management to staff planes, hired scabs, and had a training classes in progress while we were on strike. They were also losing millions upon millions per day flying empty airplanes and were telling the public to come to the airport because as Mary Francis Fagan, spokeswomen for American Airlines in Chicago, said "We are operating like it is a snow day." I still laugh when I watch that video.

 

[Hopeful]

AA is spoiling for a fight and wants to make an example of either the TWU or the flight attendants. AA isn't going to negotiate ANYTHING. They're going to dictate. Arpey sees this as his chance to break the unions at AA. There are plans right now to run a short FA training course, hire scabs, and use management to staff flights in any event of a disruption.

This could very well be the case. But if Little and Ward had any nerve, they would tell AA, if any union strikes, the other two will support them.


They figure with the track record of the TWU, they wouldn't have to worry.not sure about the APA.
The way I see it, if the company is to dictate instead of negotiate, then we need to stand up and fight.
Better off dead than living under a dictatorship.

If you know any former Eastern Airlines folks, ask them..Everyone I have ever spoken to about the strike stated they would do it all over again regardless of the financial and personal hardships they endured.

AA had the opportunity to go bankrupt following the 9/11 aftermath. The only difference now is that they want a bankruptcy deal but do not want to answer to a judge.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

If American Airlines tells you the sky is blue, poke your head outside for confirmation of that fact.

 

[eolesen]

When you see that it really is blue, you'll still think they're trying to deceive you somehow....

 

[toroshark]

When you see that it really is blue, you'll still think they're trying to deceive you somehow....

The question is, what has (or is) happened to breed such distrust?

 

[The Goose]

You might already have an agreement if you weren't demanding snap back, restore and more, etc. Why would a company agree to something that will bankrupt it? If it gives you everything and more back since 2003, APA and APFA will DELETED BY MODERATOR: profanity. And then AA files Chapter 11 and you lose your pensions and possibly your jobs.

What part of that don't you understand? Make a deal somewhere between your two positions and move on.

Quit with the fear mongering. The pensions are secure to the extent they are funded even if they're turned over to the PBGC - they simply will not accrue additional benefits from that day forward. The notion you and other apologists hint at that pensions would completely go away with the workers getting nothing is simply another management/shill lie.

Personally, I prefer the idea of a 401k-type retirement fund. It's more portable and even if one is fired for cause, it can't be taken away with the exception of any non-vested funding.

FYI - the defined contribution/401k "plan" would be more expensive for the company. Kindly explain why the devils wish to go with it.

As far as jobs are concerned, the executives will do what they must to ensure their positions, bonuses and brownie points while workers will get the crappy end of the stick - as usual.

 

[Bob Owens]

Personally, I prefer the idea of a 401k-type retirement fund. It's more portable and even if one is fired for cause, it can't be taken away with the exception of any non-vested funding.

FYI - the defined contribution/401k "plan" would be more expensive for the company. Kindly explain why the devils wish to go with it.

The company admitted that the match they offered to stores would be more costly in the short term than a DB. At negotiations they claimed that overall, switching to a DC would be "cost neutral". I think they offered a 3% match. So the figure on the total value statement should be a figure we can use to measure how much our pensions really cost the company, mine was $1200 last year, less than 3% for sure.

If I worked for a trustworthy company in a solid industry I'd want a DB, however when we look around and see those who were ripped off, Pan Am, EAL, TWA, to me its too risky to bank on a DB from an airline.