30 day cooling off explanation

[Duke787]

During that recess mediator Kane briefed the Union on National Mediation Board processes under the Railway Labor Act. We were informed that the term “impasseâ€￾ is frequently misused. Under the RLA parties are required to bargain until an “amicable agreement can not be reached.â€￾ This can go on indefinitely and the actions of the NMB are not reviewable by any court. The NMB does not declare an impasse, it determines when an amicable agreement cannot be reached, and that determination triggers the first 30-day cooing off period. Then follows an offer of binding arbitration, which has to be voluntarily accepted by both sides.

Refusal of binding arbitration by either side triggers another 30-day cooling off period during which a Presidential Emergency Board may be formed to investigate and report on the dispute making recommendations that it deems appropriate. Formation of the PEB triggers yet another 30 day cooling off period. Congress may then intervene and implement the recommendations of the PEB. The parties are; of course, free to reach an agreement at any time during this process. Failure of the above processes can lead to a strike or self help. It should be noted that in absence of a strike the company may not initiate a lock out. During self-help the company can impose a contract; however that contract cannot be less than the last offer on the bargaining table.

 

[Tex-Mech]

I think I'll take the NMB's word on this, refusal of arbitration triggers the first 30 day cooling off period.

http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/collbarg2.pdf

 

[eolesen]

The link outlines the process as defined by the RLA, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see it take up to 30 days for the mediator assigned to the negotiations to brief the board, and have the board vote on whether or not to extend the offer of binding arbitration...

 

[TWU informer]

The link outlines the process as defined by the RLA, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see it take up to 30 days for the mediator assigned to the negotiations to brief the board, and have the board vote on whether or not to extend the offer of binding arbitration...

It would also take 30 days for Arpey and the AMR BOD's to get with the consulting firms and find out what position management should take on the proffer of arbitration.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Both probably true, but if the union rejects the offer of arbitration on day one I don't think all that matters.

Jim

 

[Hopeful]

Congress may then intervene and implement the recommendations of the PEB. The parties are; of course, free to reach an agreement at any time during this process. Failure of the above processes can lead to a strike or self help. It should be noted that in absence of a strike the company may not initiate a lock out. During self-help the company can impose a contract; however that contract cannot be less than the last offer on the bargaining table.

I'll take my chances with an arbitrator or PEB. AA is stalling and hoping to get another year (Deleted by Moderator: vulgarity)...This will have given them virtually a three year extension of the TWU contract with NO cost increases.

Let the 30 day countdown begin....and let AA show its true colors publicly before an arbitrator and ultimately the PEB.

My bet is AA wants a deal soon as it approaching executive PUP time.
But the deal they want is more concessions.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let the 30 day countdown begin....and let AA show its true colors publicly before an arbitrator and ultimately the PEB.

You don't necessarily get both. If arbitration is accepted by both sides, there is no 30 day cooling off period. Like any arbitration, each side makes it's case and the arbitrator makes a ruling which is final and binding on both parties.

Since a PEB can be appointed at any time after arbitration is rejected by either party, it could replace the cooling off period, come at the end of it when a strike/CHAOS occurs, or anywhere in between. But whenever a PEB is appointed, it has no power to force an agreement (unlike an arbitrator) - it merely gives a recommendation. All the appointment of a PEB does is reset the clock to 60 days, at which time the same options of self help are available to both sides.

Jim

 

[700UW]

Congress can legislate the PEB findings and it then becomes your CBA, happens to the railroads all the time.

 

[eolesen]

Congress has legislated workrule issues for the railroads, but I've never seen them legislate anything with regard to pay or benefits. Got any examples of that?

 

[Hopeful]

Congress can legislate the PEB findings and it then becomes your CBA, happens to the railroads all the time.

Quite true. And given current economic conditions, that may very well happen.

I will still take my chances that way rather than continue to have to company refuse to negotiate in good faith.

But hey, the company was very generous with the Bulletin Board and Seniority list posting TA!

Thanks AA!

 

[Bob Owens]

Quite true. And given current economic conditions, that may very well happen.

I will still take my chances that way rather than continue to have to company refuse to negotiate in good faith.

But hey, the company was very generous with the Bulletin Board and Seniority list posting TA!

Thanks AA!

We already blew any chance of going to arbitration and coming out with anything decent, the August of 2008 and the June 2009 offers blew that. Those two offers lowered the bar, the arbitrator would say "You were willing to bring this back twice before, why not now?" That would put us right at industry bottom, with the possible exception of USAIR.

That leaves us with a PEB. The NMB already told the TWU that when the union goes before the NMB that it will be only the International and the Chairmen of the committees, thats why I believe Steve Luis made a motion to remove JR Ruiz last week, JR is from a high cost city and voted against the June offer so they want him out, this way they can pick someone who is willing to bring back a concessionary deal to go before the NMB, then they will claim that the NMB wants us to accept this deal just like they claimed that the Mediator said we had to shrink the committee.

 

[Hopeful]

We already blew any chance of going to arbitration, the August of 2008 and the June 2009 offers blew that. Those two offers lowered the bar, the arbitrator would say "You were willing to bring this back twice before, why not now?" That would put us right at industry bottom, with the possible exception of USAIR.

Oh yea...good point!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

You might already have an agreement if you weren't demanding snap back, restore and more, etc. Why would a company agree to something that will bankrupt it? If it gives you everything and more back since 2003, APA and APFA will DELETED BY MODERATOR: profanity. And then AA files Chapter 11 and you lose your pensions and possibly your jobs.

What part of that don't you understand? Make a deal somewhere between your two positions and move on.

 

[JimJimmyJim]

You might already have an agreement if you weren't demanding snap back, restore and more, etc. Why would a company agree to something that will bankrupt it? If it gives you everything and more back since 2003, APA and APFA will DELETED BY MODERATOR: profanity. And then AA files Chapter 11 and you lose your pensions and possibly your jobs.

What part of that don't you understand? Make a deal somewhere between your two positions and move on.

That's been tried the TWU offered the company a gift last summer. They didn't even answer it. Just said no.

 

[jersey777]

You might already have an agreement if you weren't demanding snap back, restore and more, etc. Why would a company agree to something that will bankrupt it? If it gives you everything and more back since 2003, APA and APFA will go apeshit until they get the same deal. And then AA files Chapter 11 and you lose your pensions and possibly your jobs.

What part of that don't you understand? Make a deal somewhere between your two positions and move on.

You seem to know all the specifics regarding what the unions are asking for? Could you please be specific regarding the APFA. I am a member and I would like to know. Is the APFA willing to increase the monthly max to reduce costs ? Are we willing to combine domestic and international to provide cost savings? Are we willing to allow new hires to not have a defined pension and go to a 401K match? Are we willing to not have crew meals reinstated? Have we given up longevity pay? Have we given up reserve override? How about galley pay on 757's? Night pay? Did we give up the pre vacation 48? Would base pay go back to 67 hours instead of 70? Are we demanding expense money to go back to 1.75/2.05 for domestic and international? Are we going to get our uniform points back? Has the APFA been willing to give up any of these items to get back the core issues of rates of pay, vacation and sick time? I would like to know what we are demanding! You seem to know. Tell me? Or are you just ignorant of how negotiations work and keep on repeating the unions "restore and more" mantra or do you have an inside mole telling you that the APFA has not moved on any of these items and are still demanding some of the items we lost that are listed above?