comatose
Senior
How's that 35% maint spend working for you TWU?
TWU will strike if provoked............................right.
TWU will strike if provoked............................right.
737 in PAE for C CHECK
- Thread starter chris perry
- Start date
Chuck Schalk
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2006
- 1,042
- 1,149
Tulsa was duped by the TWU and being duped by their twin union of the Teamsters., sign an AMFA card for the only class and craft union and lets get representation from a position of strength!!
CapRetro737
Newbie
- Jul 24, 2012
- 7
- 1
ATS/MRO, Starting a second and third line next month, NGS install for the 737 fleet.
What happened to "there's no place to take it or capacity is tight"? Just realize overhaul is going away guys Tulsa is going to be shut down probably 3 years tops probably sooner
Kev3188
Veteran
Not to be pedantic, but AA's ramp is actually in 4th place (TOS base rates) behind WN, DL, and CO.
The guys we have there are high timers but I imagine that most of them will apply at UAL. Most desire nights and have second jobs during the day. If the company does close the station I doubt many will bump into JFK/LGA as they have in the past. $4/gallon gas and $25/day in tolls would make the initial paycut to start at the bottom at UAL much easier to take. The fact that UAL has more Holidays, quicker vacation accrual and more sick time makes up for what it took them 20plus years at AA to get.
AA is the worst carrier to work for, TeAAm Videtich didnt save jobs, they destroyed them all.
How much do they lag the highest paid by?
We lag UPS by $20/hr, not including benifits which would probably bring us closer to $30/hr
We lag SWA by $10/hr, same deal with the Bennies, add $10/hr
We even lag post BK Delta and UAL by around $5/hr, plus bennies.
We arent even close to UAL.
Our hourly rate is only pennies more than US, but when you add in their Holiday pay they are ahead of us, then start adding in the rest and they are even further ahead of us.
AA has over 200 MD-80s. Squeezing in a few 737s, a plane thats very common, therefore more MRO capacity, doesnt mean there's a lot of capacity out there for AA to ship out their MD-80s.
The point is that AA has a bunch of planes they need to keep using till they get new ones, there arent 200 new planes sitting on the tarmac out there for AA to buy, it takes time, years, and this deal gave them just that. We had AA over a barrell, they needed to get a deal with their mechanics because with the fleet they have and the capacity that exists out there they could not have sustained a strike, they would have had to settle on terms more favorable to us. Instead we gave them a deal that allows them to slowly replace the MD-80s at their leisure with Aircraft that are new and more common-therefore easier to outsource when the time comes years from now. As they do they will continue to reduce Tulsa, if they get Aircraft quicker or need to reduce capacity they are free to shrink Tulsa as much as they want. Jim Ream was right about one thing, this is the last Tulsa dictated contract because Tulsa voted in their own demise. Had they been willing to fight we could have fought to make sure that the aircraft that replace the MD-80s are also brought to Tulsa. There is no such language in our contract. Dumb, just plain dumb, for the few guys that have 20 years or more left to work here they may end up with a brighter future because of that as Ream said, but that future will be on the line, Tulsa will be reduced to a shell, if not abandoned entirely, or spun off but for the average mechanic (55 years old) at AA, we wont be around long enough to see any improvements.
Kev3188
Veteran
I know, and wouldn't dispute any of what you posted, Bob.
I had just seen the "AA's FSCs are the highest paid" comment for the one too many-eth time, and thought I would note that it's not correct.
I had just seen the "AA's FSCs are the highest paid" comment for the one too many-eth time, and thought I would note that it's not correct.
We will see what we saw in the late 80s.
AA is hiring in NY at the 3rd step. Sure they will get a few guys, but once they open the Hanger in EWR those guys will leave. I will make sure they know exactly what a future at AA offers vs what UAL offers.
AA wont be able to hire them fast enough.
Lets say I'm one of the guys at JFK who live in NJ or even upstate and work nights. If I retire from AA at 55 and get my pension I could afford to go to the bottom rate at UAL and not suffer much of economic setback (money saved on tolls and gas may even produce a savings)and my total income would go up fairly quickly. As far as Paid Time Off their Holiday and sick bank plus faster vacation accrual would make up for the PTO I'd be giving up at AA. The 401 K may take a slight hit but a few FTs at 1.75 x for all hours away vs our straight time for the first 8 and only 1.5X for the rest could help make up for that. Their contractual Day Trade policy would allow me to take vacations whenever I want by doing one way trades.
AA shot themselves in the foot by screwing us over so badly. Looking forward to seeing them hop.
I have a copy of their current contract, it blows ours away on every article. They are in negotiations for a blended deal.
Delta also put out a P&B Comparasion that was current as of 12-28-12. THe figures below are from that, there may be some errors.
Monthly pay rate top of scale max longevity;
AA=$5818.69
UA-$6398.24
Profit Sharing
AA-$0
UA-15% of profits
Field Trip
AA-reg pay for 8 hrs, 1.5 x for all hours beyond 8 worked
UA-1.75 x for all hours away
Max OT rates
AA- 1.5x
UA -2x
Health benefits
AA costs more and has higher deductibles, copays and out of pocket maxs.
During BK the company chose to broaden their comparasion because the Airline industry tends to be better at providing Health benefits than the rest of the economy. The International did not challenge this.Our ATD would object to us bringing up UPS or even SWA saying that those figures are irrelevant because they are not legacy carriers but they did not object when the company used figures that included the whole economy because those numbers were more favorable than limiting the comparasion to just the airline industry.
Deductibles
AA-$2250
UA-$500
Out of pocket max
AA-$5000
UA-$3000
Copays
AA-$30
UA $25
401K
Contribution
AA-0%
UA-4%
Total max contribution and match
AA-5.5%
UA-6.25%
Holidays
AA-5 holidays at 1.5x-total of 20 hours extra pay for working holidays
UA-8 Holidays at 2.5X-total of 96 hours extra pay for working the Holidays
Vacation
AA 25 days max
UA 35 days max
So over a 35 year career UA offers around 200 more days vacation, in other words a year off with pay compared to AA.But dont worry TeAAm Videtich is saving jobs at AA!!!
IOD
AA-80 hours each occurance
UA -up to 1200 hours or whatever remains in bank from yearly accrual
We have already lived with many of these industry leading concessions for 9 long years, now we have to live with them at least 6 more years. Thats 15 long years that we had to settle for the worst deal in the industry. TeAAm Videtich claims that it was worth it because our pensions will be bigger because we kept them longer, yes but how much did we pay for that? Well for TeAAm Videtich that may be true, but our final avergae salary is nowhere near $150K and the dollar value of what we lost and probaly would not have lost is more than what we saved. If AA had gone BK in 2003 we more than likely would have walked away with most of the stuff we gave up trying to avoid BK. Its like they grabbed the wheel, swerving off the road to miss a squirrel and making us hit a tree, And to justify their actions said "yea it sucks but you should thank me because I saved the squirrel". It would likely have looked like the first TA that UAL got in the Spring of 2003 where they gave up 13% of their pay, instead, to stay out of BK the TWU told us to give up 25% which sent the rest of the industry back to the BK table to get more. USAIR had to make a second trip and they still have better Holidays , OT rules and retiree medical than we do. UAL as you can see has recovered a lot more than we did, they didnt give up as much either. Their OH was doomed by our OSM language but the guys who remained are much better off than we are.
1AA
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 6,056
- 4,231
Bob you are depressing me.
