A Letter to Mr. Horton

[limit]

Here at TUL they are hiring supervisors that we do not even need.Recently they created new supervisory position for monitoring attendance of UNION EMPLOYEES.For at least 20 years the immediate supervisor of the employee dealt with attendance issues.
TWU cannot even remember yesterday much less the "so called" management layoff of 2003.They[AA] may have sent supervisors out the front door but they brought more supervisors in thru the back door and TWU did not even protest this.We have had an ongoing layoff for the last 3 years by attrition and AA management keeps hiring more management to manage a smaller workforce.At the current rate in about 2 years we will have 1 supervisor/union employee.

Not to mention the fairly recent act of hiding 25 supervisors in the audit department.
They do nothing for months at a time.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Thousand of jobs and the company future rides in the hands of CFO's and other strategic management. Do you want to trust your career, income to someone who hasnt navigated a company through tretcherous waters, or is the lowest bidder good enough for you?

The CFO does not fix or fly the plane.
I would rather pay the pilot or mechanic more money than a CFO
When the plane takes a nose dive see if the CFO is on it
Dude you are clueless
Remember the CFO that you sux up to is the same idiot that put aa in the position it is in today. He should have invested in goog
wake up slappy nuts

 

[eolesen]

Like it or not, the CFO is just about the only face other than the CEO that investment bankers want to see when they decide to discuss the terms on which AMR gets its money.

If the bankers don't feel comfortable with how the financial side of the house is run, it really doesn't matter how safe everyone else is, because they're not going to front AMR the money necessary to buy new aircraft. AMR certainly doesn't have the cash on hand to start replacing 300 or so MD80's, let alone order 787's. The bankers trust Horton already, so if it means being able to start a fleet replacement program a year or two earlier, and start getting greater fuel efficiency and lower maintenance expense, his otherwise obscene salary will more than pay for itself.

 

[goingboeing]

Like it or not, the CFO is just about the only face other than the CEO that investment bankers want to see when they decide to discuss the terms on which AMR gets its money.

If the bankers don't feel comfortable with how the financial side of the house is run, it really doesn't matter how safe everyone else is, because they're not going to front AMR the money necessary to buy new aircraft. AMR certainly doesn't have the cash on hand to start replacing 300 or so MD80's, let alone order 787's. The bankers trust Horton already, so if it means being able to start a fleet replacement program a year or two earlier, and start getting greater fuel efficiency and lower maintenance expense, his otherwise obscene salary will more than pay for itself.

I do agree that the money people are backing Mr.Horton because he was REHIRED to swing the big axe.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

If Hortoon was not there the banks would deal with who ever was in charge be it someone they know or dont know.
If you think the banks arent going to lend money because they dont know the guy they are lending it too you are a fool. The banks lend money based on the books and the AMR game plan. Not because they know the guy in charge. If horton drops dead tomorrow all deals are off I think not.
Get a grip

 

[flyhigh]

...but the CFO does a lot to make sure there's money in the till to pay the pilot and mechanic. So, without them...no flying gets done thus no plane to crash.

As for the arguement that he (and the rest of mgmt) put AA in this position...there's plenty of blame to go around...even in the mirror.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

The money in the till is from the massive concessions imposed on us. Not the doings of aa and thier clueless management flunkies. But keep drinking that Kool AAide
Seems to me the pilot flies it the mechanic fixes it the only person failing in his or her job is management and the disasterous decisions they have made over the last 6 years.
The planes fly with or without management. Its the pilot and the wrench that keep them in the air

 

[twaokc]

Amazing how only the pilots and the wrench holders are the only ones working for this airline are the ones that are keeping it going. Maybe if your salary was reduced to what the agents make, then AA would be making money. You are not anymore important than the agents, but for some reason you think you are.


Now let me have it with both barrels.

The money in the till is from the massive concessions imposed on us. Not the doings of aa and thier clueless management flunkies. But keep drinking that Kool AAide
Seems to me the pilot flies it the mechanic fixes it the only person failing in his or her job is management and the disasterous decisions they have made over the last 6 years.
The planes fly with or without management. Its the pilot and the wrench that keep them in the air

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Amazing how only the pilots and the wrench holders are the only ones working for this airline are the ones that are keeping it going. Maybe if your salary was reduced to what the agents make, then AA would be making money. You are not anymore important than the agents, but for some reason you think you are.
Now let me have it with both barrels.

Never said I was
read what I said again read it slowly. Dont dig too deep. Take it for what it is worth. The pilot flies an airplane
the mechanic fixes it. It is not hard to understand.
I never brought the agaent or ramp person into the discussion you did.
I am merely stating we the pilot and the mechanic make the airplane work and we get paid to do so.
I cant figure out why management gets paid to make some of the worst decisions at AMR in the last decade. My argument is with FLYHIGH and his reasoning that without the CFO there would be no airplanes. He is off his rocker.

 

[flyhigh]

I only said that because of your statement that CFO's don't fix or fly the plane thus insinuating that their useless. It's the general consensus os the boards for all the companies that whatever group a person is in is the most important. Having worked in both the office and the operation, I can assure you that there are few useless jobs. There's an obvious need for pilots and mechanics...there also happens to be a great need for flight attendants, agents, and yes, even management folk. Just because you don't see what someone does, or often times comprehend what they do, doesn't mean they don't bust their tail as much as anyone else. They make informed decisions using all the available data at the time and yes, even make mistakes. As you've heard more and more lately, AA's mgmt (Arpey & Horton mostly) have stated the purchase of TWA was a mistake in hindsight...at the time, however, having worked at a competitor, it was seen as a great move. Far less costly than UA's attempt to merge with US and acheived the same relative advantage given that the overall deal included the breakup of US with part going to AA.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

TWA was a mistake

An understatement.
Seems the talk on the floor at the time of the TWA acqusition was nothing but negative. It wasnt hindsight at the time the majority of employees were saying it would be a big mistake.
Dont forget the more room throughout coach blunder.
The hidden bonuses carty took the fall for.
I am sure other posters on this thread could add to the list.
These guys make millions and the employee is forced to pay for thier clueless decision making twith concessions.
Overpaid idiots who have put AA in the financial mess it is today.But they keep getting compensated and paid like they never did any wrong. Something is wrong with this picture you are just to blind to see it h34r:

 

[FWAAA]

These guys make millions and the employee is forced to pay for thier clueless decision making twith concessions.
Overpaid idiots who have put AA in the financial mess it is today.But they keep getting compensated and paid like they never did any wrong. Something is wrong with this picture you are just to blind to see it h34r:

The list of mistakes is substantial. No doubt about that.

Problem is, despite that extensive list of mistakes, the AMR executives kept AMR out of bankruptcy, unlike the mistake-prone leaders of UAL, DAL, NWA, USAir (twice in three years) and a slew of smaller airlines. And CAL twice earlier in deregulation.

Sounds like management of every airline in the USA (except Southwest) has made numerous mistakes. Most of them so huge that they filed for bankruptcy and canceled their stockholder's equity.

So basically, it boils down to this: Management at every USA-based legacy airline (excluding, of course, WN) has made numerous stupid business decisions that have decimated their finances.

Ya know, if your premise was that management at one or two of them was profoundly stupid and incompetent, that would be easier to buy. But management at EVERY airline is the reason for the current employee pain? Nope. Terrorism, overcapacity generated by WN and B6 and very expensive fuel (compared to recent history) all broadsided the executives of every airline. Yep, they made some mistakes, but those mistakes didn't cost anything like the three listed causes (Terrorism, overcapacity and expensive fuel).

Of course, recent articles are implying that NOT filing for Ch 11 protection is actually one of Arpey's bigger mistakes. I think it's a little early to call that one.

 

[j7915]

An understatement.
Seems the talk on the floor at the time of the TWA acqusition was nothing but negative. It wasnt hindsight at the time the majority of employees were saying it would be a big mistake.
Dont forget the more room throughout coach blunder.
The hidden bonuses carty took the fall for.
I am sure other posters on this thread could add to the list.
These guys make millions and the employee is forced to pay for thier clueless decision making twith concessions.
Overpaid idiots who have put AA in the financial mess it is today.But they keep getting compensated and paid like they never did any wrong. Something is wrong with this picture you are just to blind to see it h34r:

Except for the hidden retirement accounts for the top 45, the rest of your claims are only pointing out that the oublic will fly the cheapest they can, sue after any inconvenience, and go right back to being customers of the same business.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

So the employees of every airline take massive pay cuts to offset the cost of fuel. How about passing it on to the consumer.
The 9-11 factor is getting old. You cant beat that horse anymore. Not to mention the govts 9 billion dollar bail out what happened to all that money.
Seems next to impossible to fly lately. So I am not buying the overcapacity.

 

[Bob Owens]

The list of mistakes is substantial. No doubt about that.

Problem is, despite that extensive list of mistakes, the AMR executives kept AMR out of bankruptcy, unlike the mistake-prone leaders of UAL, DAL, NWA, USAir (twice in three years) and a slew of smaller airlines. And CAL twice earlier in deregulation.

Who kept AA out of BK?

Lets see management claimed that they lowered operating expeneses by $200 million prior to going to the employees for $1.8 billion.

So management lowered their operating expenses by less than 1%, then the employees took a 25% paycut.

Sounds to me like the employees kept AA out of BK not the executives.

Sounds like management of every airline in the USA (except Southwest) has made numerous mistakes. Most of them so huge that they filed for bankruptcy and canceled their stockholder's equity.

Were they mistakes, or deliberate acts to cause a finanicail crises so they could bust down labor costs??

Both UAL and NWA had ESOP programs, so the stockholders who lost their equity, and paid record high prices for the stock, which in the case of UAL they could not sell,were pretty much employees. So they lost their equity and their pay. As for the other stockholders, most of the big boys were probably creditors also so they ended up selling the airline to the employees at inflated prices, then owning the company on the debt that the people they put in place ran up, a win win for them.

Most of these other carriers did not have the cozy position that AA had with its three company unions so even Delta, because of ALPA had to go the BK route to bust their pilots pay down.

So basically, it boils down to this: Management at every USA-based legacy airline (excluding, of course, WN) has made numerous stupid business decisions that have decimated their finances.

They did it intentionally.

Ya know, if your premise was that management at one or two of them was profoundly stupid and incompetent, that would be easier to buy. But management at EVERY airline is the reason for the current employee pain? Nope. Terrorism, overcapacity generated by WN and B6 and very expensive fuel (compared to recent history) all broadsided the executives of every airline. Yep, they made some mistakes, but those mistakes didn't cost anything like the three listed causes (Terrorism, overcapacity and expensive fuel).

The fact is that everyone knew that oil, which was at historically low price levels was due to increase, the impact of terrorism has been overstated and overcapacity is a myth.

Of course, recent articles are implying that NOT filing for Ch 11 protection is actually one of Arpey's bigger mistakes. I think it's a little early to call that one.

Well giving up 25% of our pay in order to aviod it was certainly our biggest mistake.