A New Approach to Pilot Pay at US Airways

[PullUp]

Believe whatever you like - it makes no difference to me. If you want to believe that you can increase everyone's pay, keep or improve other things and still decrease costs, go for that fantasy. It'll just be one more disappointment but you should be used to that by now...

Jim

Hey, might as well shoot for the moon....nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Yes, I'm used to the resounding ALPO victories that continue to haunt us.
Cheers.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey, might as well shoot for the moon....nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Yes, I'm used to the resounding ALPO victories that continue to haunt us.
Cheers.

Or, let's vote in a contract with a traditional pay scale and the Nic and then start working on something as radical as a LoS pay scale.

It would be a good test to see if the interest is still there with the Nic on property.

 

[Move2CLT]

In 7-10 years, the curve will be normal, with most guys in the middle years of seniority, a few on the top and a normal ramp up from year 1.
Cheers.

This company has a ROI requirement of 1 year.

You're a bit long.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Just like a union can't reshuffle a seniority list to advance the interests of one group at the expense of another the same principle applies to any bargaining products. In addition, assuming that a wealth distribution deal could obtain a TA and get ratified, which I believe is unlikely, AOL members are indicating this would ensure another DFR lawsuit and possibly a DJ lawsuit. This could take another 4 or 5 years to resolve in the courts.

 

[Beancounter]

Just like a union can't reshuffle a seniority list to advance the interests of one group at the expense of another the same principle applies to any bargaining products. In addition, assuming that a wealth distribution deal could obtain a TA and get ratified, which I believe is unlikely, AOL members are indicating this would ensure another DFR lawsuit and possibly a DJ lawsuit. This could take another 4 or 5 years to resolve in the courts.

Well if the majority of the east's goal is delay, then it's a great plan. They're just about at the end of holding up the contract based on seniority. Seniority grab over, time for a money grab. Oh, I can see it now, 5 years down the road and Parker will be back in court again asking if he can or cannot. By then we'll be paid less than the commuters that contract for us.

I think the election is pretty clear cut. You want a contract, vote Fergusen. Separate ops and no new contract, vote Hummel. Just depends on what the east wants.

 

[luvn737s]

How does a new F/O survive on 25/hr. seriously. In the real world this equates to 12/hr. Why even learn how to fly in the first place? Other airlines start at 42-45/hr., so what kind of talent are you attracting at 25? Anyway, 50/hr in the real world is 25/hr - an entry level wage for professional caliber employees, not 12.50/hr like a mcdonalds or wendy's trainee. Seen the price for a gallon of gas lately? How many HOURS does it take to pay for the fuel to get back and forth to work?

Why are you worried about pilots who haven't even been hired. Hey, how about they outsource the $25/hr flying so it's no longer a worry for you?

Pilots are hired because they are responsible. That includes their career decisions. If you don't like the pay, quit.

 

[PullUp]

Just like a union can't reshuffle a seniority list to advance the interests of one group at the expense of another the same principle applies to any bargaining products. In addition, assuming that a wealth distribution deal could obtain a TA and get ratified, which I believe is unlikely, AOL members are indicating this would ensure another DFR lawsuit and possibly a DJ lawsuit. This could take another 4 or 5 years to resolve in the courts.

Could...yes - anyone can sue for anything.
Would...probably - been there, seen that before.
Win? Not likely if all show economic gain. Hard to prove you've been harmed when you got extra money in your pocket. Look at Delta/NW and SW/ATran - one of the groups in each case were not happy with the integration but took money to compensate - no one is suing 'cause they know its a loser.
Next.

 

[PullUp]

Why are you worried about pilots who haven't even been hired. Hey, how about they outsource the $25/hr flying so it's no longer a worry for you?

Pilots are hired because they are responsible. That includes their career decisions. If you don't like the pay, quit.

The only reason guys are hiring on to this outfit now is the attrition. When that tails off, there will be no more applicants.
Pilots might get hired because they have demonstrated responsibility, but that doesn't mean they are stupid. Quite the opposite.
I'm saying that the cream of the crop will go elsewhere for more money.....wouldn't you?
Wouldn't mgmt love to outsource more jobs. They'd outsource everything if they could. Including YOUR job.
What's wrong with you?

 

[luvn737s]

Attrition? After the merger, when the AA furloughees are all recalled and retire, then there will be attrition. Lock in a integrated list with a modest improvement in the contract or take your chances with the charity if the APA. Non-starters like this idea will drag things out and remove control of your own destiny out of your hands and into those of the APA.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Great idea Ward as long as we use 330 captain pay as the base for all.

I agree, but NOT the 330 captain pay right now. It would have to be at least industry standard for the equipment.

The only reason guys are hiring on to this outfit now is the attrition. When that tails off, there will be no more applicants.
Pilots might get hired because they have demonstrated responsibility, but that doesn't mean they are stupid. Quite the opposite.
I'm saying that the cream of the crop will go elsewhere for more money.....wouldn't you?
Wouldn't mgmt love to outsource more jobs. They'd outsource everything if they could. Including YOUR job.
What's wrong with you?

The attrition won't really tail off a whole lot, at least not in the near term once mandatory retirements pick up again at the end of this year. Assuming a stable industry, (admittedly a HUGE, HUMONGOUS, GIGANTIC assumption) the pilots hired in 2013 and for quite some time afterward can expect a reasonable progression in their careers.

Why even learn how to fly in the first place?

Answer: To take advantage of the looming (since at least 1978) pilot shortage...
Answer: For the glamour.....
Answer: Too lazy to work; too nervous to steal....
Answer: The sheer enjoyment of climbing into that still-warm crash pad bed....
Answer: Free airline tickets...
Answer: ......??? (Come on! Join the fun!)

 

[cynic]

Why are you worried about pilots who haven't even been hired. Hey, how about they outsource the $25/hr flying so it's no longer a worry for you?

It's a lot easier to say "screw the other guy" when they haven't been hired yet, but that's exactly what you're doing. But hey, what does it matter as long as you get yours?

 

[Move2CLT]

It's a lot easier to say "screw the other guy" when they haven't been hired yet, but that's exactly what you're doing. But hey, what does it matter as long as you get yours?

Said the eastie.

 

[luvn737s]

It's a lot easier to say "screw the other guy" when they haven't been hired yet, but that's exactly what you're doing. But hey, what does it matter as long as you get yours?

So you have more concern for some unknown future employee than current fellow US pilots? Why not give them additional flying at Republic where they can make more money flying the E-190?

But in typical east fashion, you'd rather dream up some scheme that suits your ulterior motive than deal with reality as it exists.

Grow up.

 

[JetMonkey]

Take the Nic.. And we can all get a freaking pay raise now!

 

[PullUp]

So you have more concern for some unknown future employee than current fellow US pilots? Why not give them additional flying at Republic where they can make more money flying the E-190?

I think we should outsource all the west flying to Republic. It would make you happy, I assume.
Emailing the CEO now, be back soon....