AA AGENT'S UNION

[WingNaPrayer]

American Airlines Agents Union APSA6001

Association of Passenger Service Agents - CWA (Communications Workers of America)

I wish it was teamsters but they'll have to take what they can get.

http://www.apsa6001.org

A new link has popped up for agents in MIAMI that includes a membership application.

http://www.apsa-mia.org

Have fun and good luck to the agents as they seek collective bargaining - they're going to need it!

Can any other employees with existing unions give the Agents a heads up as far as what to expect from the company as they continue the union drive?

 

[AMFAMAN]

Can any other employees with existing unions give the Agents a heads up as far as what to expect from the company as they continue the union drive?

Well besides the harrassment when pushing cards, if they actually get enough cards to file with the NMB, they can expect to see a eligibility list at the NMB that includes: retired agents, resigned agents, fired agents, never hired agents (just interviewed-never worked for AA), deceased agents (some more than 20 years), about 15,000 ex-TWAers including those who quit, fired, or layed off in the early 90's, those layed off or fired on probation, management employees inlcuding base managers, etc, etc, etc.

In other words expect it to get really ugly, but feel free to ask for help on this board, many of us would gladly help.

 

[eolesen]

Oh, please. Is this the third or fourth attempt that CWA has made on the agents at AA? Teamsters made a run back in the 90's, but gave up after just one try.

The only thing AA management will need to do is point out how effective CWA's "roll over and pass the KY" performance was at protecting jobs for US Airways agents prior to their second bankruptcy and subsequent takeover by America West.

From the cheap seats, the CWA makes the IAM and AMFA look good...

 

[WingNaPrayer]

You mean, all AA has to do is point out how easy it is to screw over an agent, and how that is their every intent, and that will make them not want to unionize? They already have the union, and more than 50% of MIA joined it during the February drive. That isn't too bad for a membership drive. As to how well CWA performs, I don't have any personal experience but knowing how fickle MIA people are, those agents will dump CWA in a hot minute if they fail to perform. They sure as hell need to do something though and anything is better than nothing, which is what they have and will get more of if they don't act.

I notice that USAirways agents' collective bargaining agreement is on line, I guess I should give it a read.

 

[Garfield1966]

Nah, all we ( I used to be an agent) need to do is come on here and listen to all of you rave about how happy (that's sarcasim in case you missed it) you all are with your unions and they will know it would be a waste of time and money to vote one in.

The unions are their own worst enemies.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Except the agents won't be 'voting a union in' since they already have it, the APSA was constitutionalized and bylaws set up in 2002 I believe. I think the only thing they don't have is the biggie, a CBA.

If my understanding is correct, a CBA would have to be voted on and that may be tough since it requires 50% +1 and I don't think they have 50% of the qualified employees as members yet.

I like to think of AA's agents as an entirely different breed than any other carrier. They know what is going on, and what could happen to them, but they still don't want to give up the Starbucks and the right to sit on their ass and do nothing, waiting for the thunder.

There is also that nasty company mantra that unions promote laziness. The only think I know for sure is unions make it possible for executives to suck on the big bone-us, because their contracts pretty much prevent them from doing a damn thing about it.

It has to get ugly before it can get pretty - and I wish my AA friends the best in the fight they are about to undertake.

The saddest part of all is that those who think if they vote no on unions, they will be protected by the company, or chosen first when the rest are laid off are stuck in that dazed state I like to refer to as "dummer than a bag of hammers"

In truth, I just want to see the agents get to the place where they can legally strike, and show the board of directors who really runs the airline. I realize that no mechanics = planes don't fly, no pilots/FAs = planes don't fly, but no agents = no passengers boarding/no revenue.

I have yet to take a flight out of MIA in the past 7 weeks that wasn't delayed due to lack of manpower. One agent simply cannot board a 777 in the time allowed and we wait and wait - and I continually miss my connections. With minimum crew on board, no one comes out to help like they used to (and still rarely do).

Question: Does AA really have an anti-union "manual" that they had printed up? How would one get to read it if so?

 

[eolesen]

As long as they're not recognized by the NMB or the company as being a collective bargaining unit, they're a union in name only (sort of like the TWU?).

Personally, I think the agents are flirting with visions of grandeur which will lead to disaster. Not to spread fear or cast aspersions, but they're probably the most replaceable group that a customer comes in contact with, and even there, coming in contact with an agent is becoming the exception more than the norm.

I flew today on a connection via DFW. The only interaction I had with an agent was at my upline station because I was able upgrade (it hadn't cleared in advance). At DFW, the backdrop told me the upgrade wasn't able to be cleared on that segment, so I didn't need to talk to anyone there aside from the rep at the Club.

On the previous two trips before that (day trips to ORD and DFW), I used web check-in and didn't even have to talk to anyone at all.

Granted, two of those three trips were clear weather days. My ORD trip had a five hour delay, but the entire delay was spent up in the club, with FIDS giving us our revised departure time(s).

My point... kiosks are already doing almost all of what express check-in agents used to do. With each new release (quarterly), self-service gets better and better. Likewise with AA.Com and its impact on Res. I'm not saying that agents (res or airport) will ever be eliminated, but it certainly isn't anywhere near as complex as the job I was hired to do 21 years ago.

If the ASPA really thinks they can wield a lot of power over the company, they need a reality check. All they're doing is providing motivation for AA to keep working on products like kiosks and improving AA.Com so that they can continue to attrit out agents as they've done for the past 10 years. Perhaps having a union 10 years ago might have slowed that down a bit, but the unions at NWA, ALK, and TWA, all of whom were represented by unions 10 years ago, weren't able to prevent advances in customer facing technology from taking over their jobs.

The advances in sales automation aren't limited to just the agents, either. Look at agencies, and the impact that eticketing had on them. Previously, the fact that a paper ticket had to be issued gave them the ability to demand 10% commissions. Today, no ticket, no justification for commissions.

GDS's also thought that they could command huge booking fees from the airlines, because 1) they owned the systems the agencies were using to extort their 10% commissions, and 2) Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet. Today, the big GDS's (Sabre, Amadeus, Worldspan, Galileo) have all had to reinvent themselves because the bookable transactions are on the decline. Up to now, the GDS's response has been to raise booking fees to offset the decline in volume. That no longer works, so the GDS's are about to pay the piper. Sabre already went private, and is going to see some radical changes as a result. Galileo and Worldspan are in the process of merging, and again, are seeing radical changes. Amadeus is privately held as well, and is more and more positioning themselves as an IT shop than a GDS.


So....

To bring this back around to airport and res agents.

The union can't stop people from buying tickets on the internet, and it's unlikely that any union would be able to turn the tide with regard to people checking in via the internet or from using kiosks.

Whatever they do, they need to be a little smarter in understanding and leveraging how they provide value to the company, and what's reasonable to expect in return. Believing that they have the power to shut down the airline isn't exactly realistic.

 

[ch53D]

As long as they're not recognized by the NMB or the company as being a collective bargaining unit, they're a union in name only (sort of like the TWU?).

Personally, I think the agents are flirting with visions of grandeur which will lead to disaster. Not to spread fear or cast aspersions, but they're probably the most replaceable group that a customer comes in contact with, and even there, coming in contact with an agent is becoming the exception more than the norm.

I flew today on a connection via DFW. The only interaction I had with an agent was at my upline station because I was able upgrade (it hadn't cleared in advance). At DFW, the backdrop told me the upgrade wasn't able to be cleared on that segment, so I didn't need to talk to anyone there aside from the rep at the Club.

On the previous two trips before that (day trips to ORD and DFW), I used web check-in and didn't even have to talk to anyone at all.

Granted, two of those three trips were clear weather days. My ORD trip had a five hour delay, but the entire delay was spent up in the club, with FIDS giving us our revised departure time(s).

My point... kiosks are already doing almost all of what express check-in agents used to do. With each new release (quarterly), self-service gets better and better. Likewise with AA.Com and its impact on Res. I'm not saying that agents (res or airport) will ever be eliminated, but it certainly isn't anywhere near as complex as the job I was hired to do 21 years ago.

If the ASPA really thinks they can wield a lot of power over the company, they need a reality check. All they're doing is providing motivation for AA to keep working on products like kiosks and improving AA.Com so that they can continue to attrit out agents as they've done for the past 10 years. Perhaps having a union 10 years ago might have slowed that down a bit, but the unions at NWA, ALK, and TWA, all of whom were represented by unions 10 years ago, weren't able to prevent advances in customer facing technology from taking over their jobs.

The advances in sales automation aren't limited to just the agents, either. Look at agencies, and the impact that eticketing had on them. Previously, the fact that a paper ticket had to be issued gave them the ability to demand 10% commissions. Today, no ticket, no justification for commissions.

GDS's also thought that they could command huge booking fees from the airlines, because 1) they owned the systems the agencies were using to extort their 10% commissions, and 2) Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet. Today, the big GDS's (Sabre, Amadeus, Worldspan, Galileo) have all had to reinvent themselves because the bookable transactions are on the decline. Up to now, the GDS's response has been to raise booking fees to offset the decline in volume. That no longer works, so the GDS's are about to pay the piper. Sabre already went private, and is going to see some radical changes as a result. Galileo and Worldspan are in the process of merging, and again, are seeing radical changes. Amadeus is privately held as well, and is more and more positioning themselves as an IT shop than a GDS.
So....

To bring this back around to airport and res agents.

The union can't stop people from buying tickets on the internet, and it's unlikely that any union would be able to turn the tide with regard to people checking in via the internet or from using kiosks.

Whatever they do, they need to be a little smarter in understanding and leveraging how they provide value to the company, and what's reasonable to expect in return. Believing that they have the power to shut down the airline isn't exactly realistic.

Eolesen, I’m just wondering your opinion. Should the Agents sit back and just let things happen or should they try to fight?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

WNP,
I wish them well, i really do.

In addition to what was mentioned earlier(Phoney total # of people eligible to vote), It's been the MORONS in RES, that has stifled former attemps to unionize,...PLUS the FOREVER and ALWAYS(present) KOOL AID drinkers, who reside outside of the triangle(BOS-MSP-DCA-BOS), and reside outside of the line from LAX-SFO-PDX-SEA !

Jesus, I just realized that the states I've refered to are 95%..BLUE states.

(Back to RES for a second),...There WAS a time, that the "ERO" (eastern res center, in Connecticut), was the largest,...BUT, AA has since created larger res centers, away from "union savvy" area's.

If THAT sounds familiar, THATS because IT IS.
(Think AA "relocating" from New York, to TEX-ASS, and OKIE-HOMA)


NH/BB's

 

[eolesen]

Eolesen, I’m just wondering your opinion. Should the Agents sit back and just let things happen or should they try to fight?

Fight? What exactly did the IAM or CWA fight for at USAir or United?

If the agents want to do it, let them. I don't see a lot of justification for it.

The company has held on to the concept of having one benefits plan for all workgroups, and already holds to seniority for furloughs, so the only potential upside would be workrules and pay, and even that's doubtful in my opinion.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Fight? What exactly did the IAM or CWA fight for at USAir or United?

If the agents want to do it, let them. I don't see a lot of justification for it.

The company has held on to the concept of having one benefits plan for all workgroups, and already holds to seniority for furloughs, so the only potential upside would be workrules and pay, and even that's doubtful in my opinion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ahh, "Good boy", eolesen...."Workrules". You SAID the magic word.

It's most likely that Workrules would be the MAIN reason that the agents would want representation.

You know, like flipping over your "position CLOSED" sign, when it's EXACTLY time to punch out(and a supervisor FORGOT to assign mandatory overtime, using a FAIR system.

You gotta' love those WORKRULES !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[Oneflyer]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ahh, "Good boy", eolesen...."Workrules". You SAID the magic word.

It's most likely that Workrules would be the MAIN reason that the agents would want representation.

You know, like flipping over your "position CLOSED" sign, when it's EXACTLY time to punch out(and a supervisor FORGOT to assign mandatory overtime, using a FAIR system.

You gotta' love those WORKRULES !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

That is some UNION pride right there.

 

[eolesen]

You know, like flipping over your "position CLOSED" sign, when it's EXACTLY time to punch out(and a supervisor FORGOT to assign mandatory overtime, using a FAIR system.

That's a great example of customer service and work ethic, Bears.

The first time someone does that to me is the last time AA gets my money. I deserve better than that as a customer, and won't put up with high priced crappy service.

 

[flyhigh]

Bear,

The only thing you proved is why people are increasingly disenfranchised by union folks. This isn't 4th grade where you can stare at the clock until it hits 3:00pm on the dot and you clock out. I work for a client who works in a different time zone...you think they'd be happy if I said, sorry it's after quittin' time...gotta stop now???

It's not like agents are being brought out back and beaten...by mgmt at least. There was the one Continental customer who did that to one of their agents though. Again, that can happen in any job. Kiosks tend to fair better though. Eolsen pretty much hit the nail on the head...most of what customers typically relied on agents for previously can now be done at home or through the kiosk. I wouldn't be surprised if in 5-10 years you don't have agents board flights, but TSA instead as you scan your own boarding pass while walking through a much more robust security system...like the one they displayed a few months back that can see through your clothes...

 

[Garfield1966]

Like I said earlier, Unions (and some of their members) are their own worst enemies. From what my agent friends tell me, there does not appear to be much risk in them going union. They appear to be much smarter than that.