AA to pay $14 million in first quarter AIP bonuses

[eolesen]

There's a huge difference between bitching about executive compensation and protesting turning our democracy into a socialist regime.

If I don't like my employer, there's nothing holding me back from finding another employer.

I shouldn't have to find another country because our irresponsibly elected American Idol has taxed the next two generations of unborn without representation... but I digress.

aamechntx, sorry if you don't like hearing what your customers think. Too many of you guys are stuck in April 2003.

Exec comp might be a good rallying cry, but that's all it is. No workgroup has ever been able to make a case by complaining about other workgroups on property. Has the TWU ever gotten a raise because the APA did? Did APFA ever get a raise because of an imbalance between them and the TWU or APA?

Fight the battles you can actually win. Exec comp ain't it.

 

[FWAAA]

Someone doesn't understand the meaning of sharing or worse; they do understand but they don't want to share.

The answer is probably closer to the latter - they've no intention of sharing any gains with us.

And nevertheless, despite the tripe about the company "not wanting" to share any gains, the company wrote $800 checks about 18 months ago to 80,000 employees; even though the company was under no obligation to do so.

Of course the company doesn't "want" to pay any more than it has to. Like every other employer, paying the minimum is the goal.

How about 200 shares of AA stock instead of a puny cash payout? That would be 800 shares a year.

Good idea. Negotiate for that benefit if that's what you want. Or, more accurately, first replace the loser union that's holding you back and choose a union that will actually represent you. And get that union to bargain for stock-based variable compensation.

 

[The Goose]

Goodness - I see narcissistic corporate defenders.

Excuse me whilst I shrink to the shadows and shudder in mortal fear.

FYI eoleson - drawing a parallel re: the use of fear to acheive a desired result is hardly a statement of democracy or corporate compensation. Try reading my post again. It's difficult for me to fathom how even you could have misunderstood what I said, but ... I guess our schools taught different versions of the language.

 

[eolesen]

I'm not defending exec comp, Goose. But it's not something that you're going to be able to change at the bargaining table. You're negotiation your pay, not theirs.

I've never seen paycheck envy work as a justification for a raise, either at AA or outside AA. Why do you think it will be different this time?

Drop the distractions, and focus on getting a contract that actually benefits both sides.


As for use of fear... when you make comments like "they've no intention of sharing any gains with us" you're not doing anything different than someone making statements like "if we don't approve this legislation, the economy will grind to a halt next Tuesday". You're just casting fear, uncertainty and doubt in a more subtle manner. You don't know they won't share gains. I'll agree that past practice would say otherwise, but at some point you have to put that behind you if you're ever going to change things...

 

[TWU informer]

Sure, it's not guaranteed, but it's cost neutral to the company when you don't perform to target, and it's more than offset from lowered costs when you do perform well. If you can find cost neutral ways to increase pay, the company just might agree with you. So will a mediator or arbitrator.

Issue us $8 billion worth of stock, claim it doesnt equal cash and then let's negotiate cash and benefits from their.

That would be pretty damn neutral...yes.

 

[aamechntx]

There's a huge difference between bitching about executive compensation and protesting turning our democracy into a socialist regime.

Cmon, Eric. Our schools, hospitals, transportation systems and food (farming system) are socialized. Look at the definition and tell me their not. Were a lot closer to Europe than you would like to admit.

If I don't like my employer, there's nothing holding me back from finding another employer.

Hmm, Im leaving this one alone, for now.



I shouldn't have to find another country because our irresponsibly elected American Idol has taxed the next two generations of unborn without representation... but I digress.

What was the debt before Obama took office? Did you see a spending bill that Bush wouldn't sign pre 9-11? He was supposed to be a conservative. Obama did not get us into the mess we are in now. Policies were put in place the last twenty years to prevent burbing in the economy. Problem with that is eventually you have to deal with the vomit. Heck, even just weeks prior to this economic catastrophe Bush said everything seemed fine.

aamechntx, sorry if you don't like hearing what your customers think. Too many of you guys are stuck in April 2003.

I love to hear what our customers think. Were not stuck in 03 our compensation is!

Exec comp might be a good rallying cry, but that's all it is. No workgroup has ever been able to make a case by complaining about other workgroups on property. Has the TWU ever gotten a raise because the APA did? Did APFA ever get a raise because of an imbalance between them and the TWU or APA?

Exec comp in the US is unexecusable. It should not be tolerated as it stands now. When you have a bunch of guys that co chair eachothers boards voting for one another's pay raises all the while the company is bleeding money, well thats just wrong. Why is CEO comp around 12-15% in Europe and 300-400% here? GREED! To be completely honest, it would be more acceptable if the frontline employees were faring better.



Fight the battles you can actually win. Exec comp ain't it.

It will change. One has to change attitudes first.

 

[aamechntx]

Classic socialist class warfare: keep the executive salary/compensation highlighted and hope that somebody will "stick it to them". What a great country the USA is becoming.

When is v3.0 coming out?

 

[Hopeful]

Classic socialist class warfare: keep the executive salary/compensation highlighted and hope that somebody will "stick it to them". What a great country the USA is becoming.

I didn't hear this argument when the attack on labor started after Reagan fired the air traffic controllers. Companies took the anti-labor government stance ball and hasn't stopped running with it since. I can't believe all the uproar over the criticism of executive greed and compensation while there was complete silence during the last three decades when labor was decimated.

Hey frugal, I guess it was ok to destroy the labor movement while management was given free reign. Greed and poor management has destroyed once great American corporations more than labor ever did.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

IGreed and poor management has destroyed once great American corporations more than labor ever did.

First, I never said labor destroyed corporations and second, your above statement is an over simplification / exaggeration. As far as my socialist comment, take it from somebody who was born & lived in a socialist country before fleeing to 'the west'. Hearing some of the talk that is going on today (regarding corporations and 'the rich $250 000 millionaires') in the USA is deja vu all over again.

Congrats on the $200 bonus. Job well done. It isn't much and should not be used as a substitute for your hourly compensation (or annual salary). I have to agree that bonuses like these (even bigger ones) should be something all y'all should have in your contract (as a bonus, not annual compensation). Best of luck in negotiating a better contract, but it isn't going to be pre-2003 concessions for a long time no matter how much you envy and bitterness you express at the execs and their salary.

 

[Hopeful]

First, I never said labor destroyed corporations and second, your above statement is an over simplification / exaggeration. As far as my socialist comment, take it from somebody who was born & lived in a socialist country before fleeing to 'the west'. Hearing some of the talk that is going on today (regarding corporations and 'the rich $250 000 millionaires') in the USA is deja vu all over again.

Congrats on the $200 bonus. Job well done. It isn't much and should not be used as a substitute for your hourly compensation (or annual salary). I have to agree that bonuses like these (even bigger ones) should be something all y'all should have in your contract (as a bonus, not annual compensation). Best of luck in negotiating a better contract, but it isn't going to be pre-2003 concessions for a long time no matter how much you envy and bitterness you express at the execs and their salary.

I don't envy greedy executives who believe they are better than the rest of society.
This is not about envy...get it straight.....It's about the greedy suits up top who preached "shared sacrifice" but exempted themselves. maybe you aspire to be one of them, I don't.

And as long as they continue to not negotiate in bad faith...I will do my best to make sure that AA's performance becomes more and more dismal, thus my goal is keep AA's stock price at gutter levels. It's the only think your hero executives understand.

Maybe you would sell your soul for $200...I wouldn't.

I got this amount for actually doing the least amount of work possible.
I give them about an hour a day of actual work and when you calculate getting a full salary while working only an hour...well you do the math.

 

[wcs]

Let's go over these one at a time.

1 The tired old "leave if you don't like it".
I've gone over this before. We have a lot invested. We're staying, but we'll still complain.

2 You're socialists
The member of labor on this forum haven't been making socialists comments despite your attempts at twisting their statements. And Frugal, if you did emigrate from under a socialist govenment as you implied, you should know the difference. While some people have expressed outrage at the extreme multiples some managers enjoy, I for one don't care what others make in salary. But I will complain about the difference because they promised sharing. They lied about sharing and I'm complaining about the lies.

3Concentrate on your contract
Our labor leaders have been concentrating on negotiations. It's management that has made
fake efforts at the process. There are some members that are frustated with the length of time that it has taken. Some criticize our labor leaders as a result. They want more provocative actions. Debate about what actions and when is good.
And don't say that we'll be destroying the company. Don't put that all on labor. The actions and more importantly the inactions of management has begun a slow erosion towards that end.

 

[Hopeful]

And don't say that we'll be destroying the company. Don't put that all on labor. The actions and more importantly the inactions of management has begun a slow erosion towards that end.

How true....With the only difference being is the executives are guaranteed their payday as the company turns to dust.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_<-----Frugal, talk about daja vu! I've seen this all before! This is playing out in a way that took down a once great Airline. I hate to see history repeat itself! ------ Corporate lies and greed were what took that Airline down. The only reason it lasted as long as it did was because of the sacrifice of the little guys (labor)! It was an heroic stand! But in the end not enough, because of the lies, and greed of others!---- Example: TWA's crown jewels were it's LHR routes. Carl Ichon sold those routes to AA for a fair price, but Uncle Carl pocketed all those $$$$ millions, without putting a penny of it back into the Company!----He "routinely" dragged out his labor contracts, two years and more with the threat of closing down the Company!---- So what's the point to all this? The point is, I've seen what greed, and lies, can do to a Company! I've seen how labor has carried a Company on it's backs! I've seen how the top few have gotten rich over it!---- AA management promised a "shared sacrifice" when concessions were given in 2003! That was a lie! It never happened! I really don't want to see AA to go down that path TWA did!!! There are too many good people, and their families, that could get hurt if it did!

 

[ReadyNow]

How true....With the only difference being is the executives are guaranteed their payday as the company turns to dust.

I am not an expert in AA exec pay, but I thought that a significant part of their pay was tied up in incentive stock options that take a while to vest. If the company goes BK, then wouldn't a significant part of their pay vanish? If, true, this is a powerful incentive to keep the train on the tracks

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Let's go over these one at a time.
1 The tired old "leave if you don't like it".
I've gone over this before. We have a lot invested. We're staying, but we'll still complain.

Right, we've been over this before. My opinion is that not leaving is stupid whereas you can't work & live in a job without union protection. We'll agree to disagree on this. BTW, I didn't say anything about leaving if you don't like it in this thread.

2 You're socialists
The member of labor on this forum haven't been making socialists comments despite your attempts at twisting their statements. And Frugal, if you did emigrate from under a socialist govenment as you implied, you should know the difference. While some people have expressed outrage at the extreme multiples some managers enjoy, I for one don't care what others make in salary. But I will complain about the difference because they promised sharing. They lied about sharing and I'm complaining about the lies.

I'll say it again as somebody who was born and lived in a socialist contry before fleeing: the kind of rhetoric going on in the USA these days (rich vs. poor, cons vs. libs, labor good vs. management evil) is a classic socialist playbook BS. Too bad people fall for it too easily. I've lived it, seen it, heard it & experienced it all before. I do know the difference, too bad you can't see it.

3Concentrate on your contract
And don't say that we'll be destroying the company. Don't put that all on labor. The actions and more importantly the inactions of management has begun a slow erosion towards that end.

I didn't say labor is destroying the company, somebody's putting words in my mouth.