All US Airways mechanics and related.

[pitguy]

And what would the current union do about the same matter if it happened here?

I bet they would do nothing.



Allot of Mechanics think that:

Typical IAM appears to be bash AMFA instead of doing their job and showing 'results' to the current dues paying Mechanics. If the IAM would do there job for the Mechanics then there would be no AMFA.

If United goes AMFA then we would be the only major carrier's Mechanics still represented by the IAM. I do not see how that would be a plus to us. We would have to change to.

It is wrong for a skilled Mechanics to make a few stones more than some unskilled person that hired in with a high school diploma and a few days or weeks training. It is WRONG. Now why is it that way? Allot of Mechanics hold the union responsible right beside the company.

At least we can give the fellow IAM people work that Mechanics used to do and get no credit for it. Strength in numbers means dues paid in numbers which is good "union business".


So if the IAM is so good and is doing so much for Mechanics then please tell us about that instead of bashing AMFA. That could end this thread. There might not be anything to say then. Hehe........

 

[LavMan]

AMFA Press Release, May 6, 2003 - In a letter to AMFA officials, Northwest said that because of SARS it is invoking the "force majeure" clause that would release Northwest from contract commitments affecting wages and job security.
"We''re disappointed that Northwest would risk reducing the public''s confidence in flying by overstating the SARS threat in order to avoid contract obligations," said AMFA Local 33 President Jim Atkinson.


An additional 800-1000 of AMFA’s dwindling membership are expected to be furloughed, but that number can grow as their work gets increasingly sent out of the country. Northwest being released from wage commitments can be devastating for the few AMFA members who remain employed. And all AMFA does is have a single local issue a press release,while the AMFA National Officers are nowhere to be found.
This is all occurring outside of bankruptcy, without the threat of contract abrogation, and without a membership vote.
In contrast, IAM District 143 President Bobby DePace issued a membership bulletin on May 2, 2003 stating the Northwest Airlines has notified the district there will be an increase of 400 IAM member jobs across the system by June 6, 2003.
The difference in representation is clear.

 

[LavMan]

Pitguy if amfa is so great then how come NWA farms out heavy maintenance all over the world? They have planes in GSO and Singapore while they continue to layoff AMTs.

Why have they have not done anything at SWA? SWA farms out 69% of their maintenance?

 

[pitguy]

First of all I do not think they are great. I believe they have limited resources and are a much smaller union. But when I looking at the current union I am left with the following feelings. I feel the current union is a business that is out for what is best for them only. I feel that the main thing they care about is money through as many dues paying members as they can get. I feel they love total control of their members and leading through intimidation. I feel there is corruption of office. I see no grievances being processed. I feel they are in bed with the company. I feel some of them are getting money from company that they are not entitled to that influence their decisions. All of this leads to poor feelings for a Mechanic who in his job is left with little regards for his position. I feel this union treats Mechanics as unskilled labor. Being a Mechanic is likely the worst job in this company. It is sickening for what Mechanics do and go through for their jobs to be treated and paid how they are. I place allot of the blame on that on the current union. Do I believe the AMFA will change all. No. But I feel the current union is too polluted through the ranks to change for the good. So really the only options is to go AMFA since they are non AFL-CIO affiliated and we would not have to decertify for a year. Besides all of this I bet the company wants you to stay with the current union. Can you guess why?

--They above is only my opinion. I am just one vote.

 

[LavMan]

Pitguy, do you have facts and proof to back up your opinions?

And to 757fixer, I spoke with our AGC about that issue and they company has been put on notice if they attempt to farm out any of the S checks there will be a war at hand.

 

[757fixer]

Per Bill Freiburgher on the tuesday morning conference,the company is actively soliciting third party maintenance providers to do the airbus S checks which start coming due this october.You can bet the IAM will fold like a house of cards on this.

 

[pitguy]

LavMan,



It would be foolish of me to battle the union and the company. So it is best for me just to ride it out. This may not make sense to you, but it is a very long involved story and I will not bring it out here. I just know they gotta go.



--"I knows what I knows."

--Some things can only be seen if you are in the inner circle.

(The above is just my opinion and I am only one vote)

 

[Jet Mechanic]

LavMan,

Thanks for the response on your remuneration. I''ll assume you don''t receive anything for being news editor of "Victory News" either. If I''m wrong, feel free to set me straight.

This question regards your posting on the situation at Northwest: I was able to see the news release

(http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030506/65940_1.html)

where Jim Atkinson is quoted. What is your source for the remaining information you posted? Please give me the site address so that I may read it myself. Specifically, what IAM positions are increasing by 400??


Jet Mechanic

----------------
On 5/7/2003 3:24:55 PM LavMan wrote:





An additional 800-1000 of AMFA’s dwindling membership are expected to be furloughed, but that number can grow as their work gets increasingly sent out of the country. Northwest being released from wage commitments can be devastating for the few AMFA members who remain employed. And all AMFA does is have a single local issue a press release,while the AMFA National Officers are nowhere to be found.
This is all occurring outside of bankruptcy, without the threat of contract abrogation, and without a membership vote.
In contrast, IAM District 143 President Bobby DePace issued a membership bulletin on May 2, 2003 stating the Northwest Airlines has notified the district there will be an increase of 400 IAM member jobs across the system by June 6, 2003.
The difference in representation is clear.


----------------​

 

[pitguy]

This was posted a few months ago and I am reposting it now for this thread:


(Christopher L. Chiames is the Senior Vice President - Corporate Affairs for
US Airways, Inc.)

The post was dated 1-05-2003

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

PITguy, I apologize for the delay. I haven't been online and just saw your note.

We are not going to outsource heavy maintenance in PIT or elsewhere. We never even proposed it. (Unlike UA which has proposed the outsourcing of heavy maintenance.)

We will pay all furlough pay as provided for in the contract.

We have no further plans to lay off more mechanics beyond what is published. With the new commitment to operate 279 a/c, we will need just about all the mechanics on the property to perform the maintenance we have scheduled, since our fleet plan anticipated retiring some planes that we will now be flying.

Finally, we are not trying to vendor maintenance with either Boeing or Airbus.

Chris Chiames

 

[Tim Nelson]

----------------
On 5/7/2003 1:23:46 PM diogenes wrote:

I have some long standing disagreements with how the IAM operates. The divisions amongst the class and crafts, and between stations, are appalling. Isn't the root word of 'union' unity? And don't even get me started on the 'vote the slate' bullhockey. Doesn't the district trust us to elect our own representation? (Trivia question: How many AGC's has been voted out of office in the past 20 years? Answer: None.)

Having said that, the IAM is not the sole, nor major reason for the recent enema we just took. ALPA is the most powerful union in the industry, if not the world. Did they not take a pimp-slapping, as did the rest of us? If they were unable to protect their jobs, pensions and health care, how in the world was the IAM, CWA or AFA expected to do any better? When this company's tactics find their way over to NW, and it will, AMFA will get punked just like everybody else.

Moreover, what political outreach does AMFA have? And please, do not give me the naive "unions should not be involved in politics" line. Management is involved. The Business Roundtable is involved. Majority stockholders are involved. WE need to be involved.

For instance, our contract calls for FMLA in compliance with federal law. No federal law, no FMLA. Federal law restricts FMLA? Your rights get restricted along with it. (FMLA abuse is another thread) Another example. A bill that has just passed the House says an employer can pay you compensatory time, rather than money, for overtime. The bill also reclassifies who is and is not eligible for overtime. Under the bill, the poor schmuck at JC Penney's that sells you a necktie is ineligible for overtime IF he is even partly compensated by commission - that commission can be any figure the company sets. Imagine the fun the Palace would have with that! But, you say, my contract says I get cash for overtime. Read the first few pages closer. It says the contract is subject to changes in the law. Right now, the only thing between this bill and Bush signing it into law is labor's friends in the Senate. I pray there are enough of them to vote down this monstrosity. So a political presence is very much in order. While I don't agree with every IAM political issue, UNIONS ARE THE ONLY DOG WE HAVE IN THIS FIGHT! Someone please educate me as to where AMFA is on these issues.

Seems to me AMFA wants us to marry them on the rebound.

----------------​

Diogenes I always enjoy your post but I suppose we may actually disagree on some things you said, unless I misunderstood you.

You mentioned that we must rectify some things in the IAM, specifically I believe you mentioned some AGC's not worth their weight.
First off, the AGC's make $94,500 and usually burn another $15,000 a year, some more, some less.
But that isn't the point of this post.

I actually tried to rectify getting some of the deadweight out and I can assure you that it has never happened. The Labor dept actually had to rule against the District once. How can yo vote out a current AGC when you have workers from Phillipines, Hawaiian, United, and Aloha voting on your AGC's, and they have no clue on who they are voting for? How do you reconcile that to the pursuit of voting out your AGC, I certainly would like to know?

Alas, maybe a bylaw change at the convention then right? Well, that's worse than pulling teeth. I been there and done that. Call the biggest local in 141 [ORD] which only has about 7,000 members and ask them why they aren't financially supporting any delegates to the 141 convention this year! Off the record their answer will be because the convention is a joke...on the record they might say it's because of a money crunch. Either way it IS because the convention isn't worth the money.

I also served on the Convention screening committee and we had one proposal come through that me and all the other screening committee members approved to go to the bylaws committee but that was discarded also. But none of this is new.

If we are the union then how can this be?

So are we the Union? Yes, but the IAM is the organization that represents us the members. let me explain. When you switch unions, the union doesn't change, i.e., you, me and all other fleet service, because we are the union. But the Labor organization does change. And I won't do a long diatribe about the self evident type of representation the IAM has shelled out to Fleet service, I will simply just say all one needs to do is look up at the scoreboard.

The fundamental problem with the IAM is the jurassiclike paternal system of government that went out in the 70's. So that, let me ask you a few questions regarding this.

Have you ever voted on your contract proposal screening committee? No, in fact lately we haven't even had one because the IAM decided they knew what was best and didn't bother asking the members for proposals.

What member decided we should take the $45 million dollar concession associated with the IAM pension fund?

And, Diogenes, who actually elected our negotiations team?

There are two 'major' fundamental reasons to have a union, Negotiations and Grievances, do you agree?
Tell me Diogenes, you say you work in a medium sized station? Who was there representing your station at the table? Surely one person...right?

Also, regarding small/medium stations, I believe I remember you saying things don't add up to $14 million unless there are more furloughs? Correct me if I'm wrong.
I asked about this and I was told that the fleet numbers would stay the same and that the only IAM members affected would be in M&R. Now we see the lie manifested.

But, the IAM signed confidentiality papers so it was not permissible for them to reveal some things was it?

Now comes this opportunity to switch unions. So that, I ask you to carefully consider everything I said but moreso read the AGW constitution or highlight sheet. It is distinctly democratic and moreso than any other Labor organization.
No more would small/medium sized stations not have someone on a negotiations committee, after all, if the small stations were all represented last time then we might have had some idea of what the term "express station" meant and its application.


Sorry for the long post Diogenes but please call me at the dialnet area code and first 3 numbers as you see them in the computer, then the last 4 numbers being 7158. We are seldom in the breakroom but it is best to reach me at or around 0700-0800 CST

Onward AGW

Tim Nelson, Former Local Chairman 1487

 

[Bob Owens]

Sorry to but in again guys but I will anyway.

Will AMFA solve all your problems?

No.
But, going to AMFA will be another small step towards what should have been done years ago.

When I see a mechanic from USAIR I feel a sense of kinship more so than I would a baggage handler in my own union and even more so than someone who is in a completely different industry but the same union. While I do feel a certain kinship with all unionists and working people, it’s strongest with my fellow mechanics. When I go over to talk to mechanics at UPS, we immediately recognize that we are in an unrecognized brotherhood, they are Teamsters. Same at United and even non-union Delta. The fact that our unions keep us apart is wrong. It’s unnatural and anti-union. Unions should bring people together. Especially those who do the same thing.

The TWU, IAM, IBT and CWA do not belong in this industry. They should not be keeping airline workers apart. Why are they here?

Easy, the RLA.

Having unions in the RLA means a constant source of revenue. Once in place it takes very little effort to stay in place.

Do you think that these unions would have gotten away with what they just did in any other industry, especially those in RTW states? I''m dead set against RTW but if it was the law of the land most of these unions would have seen their dues fall off by at least 50% over the last year. I know even in NY, which is a pro-union state, these unions would have seen nearly all dues revenue cease. I know that at this point I would refuse to pay my union.

If it weren’t about dues and power, and these leaders beliefs were true to their words they would have combined their ATDs years ago. They will not do it because none of them are willing to put the welfare of the members ahead of their own personal aspirations.

Since they wont do it, if you ever want to see or have the chance of all mechanics in one powerful union, you only have one choice-AMFA.

There is one undeniable fact. The unions of this industry have failed their airline members. They sat and watched each other get picked off one at a time and did nothing. They told their members not to resist to this rape. Like Tex Antoine they said, "When the force is inevitable, may as well lay back and enjoy it". Instead of standing together to resist, they conspired together to make us submit.

A while back I posted that if a Judge abrogates any agreement at United that all unions should walk off the job. That we should shut down the whole thing and force the government to fix this industry. Worker should not have been forced to bear the burdens imposed by mismanagement and terrorism. Both of these were out of our control. In response to that statement, Jim Little, ATD Director for the TWU said that I was endangering our members and that I should retract the statement. I refused. I told him that his, and the other leaders, inaction was endangering the livelihoods of all airline workers. He blamed the AFL-CIO. Why would a union leader say that an act of solidarity with our fellow unionist is a threat to our members?

Well for one thing they were not losing anything. Their pay, benefits and pensions are untouched. These labor leaders have abandoned the notion of a labor "movement" and instead see themselves as quasi executives themselves. They measure the cost vs. benefit to the short-term bottom line of the organization instead of the long-term interests of the members. They rationalize their treachery with quips about the "greater good" and the belief that all problems can eventually be solved through political lobbying instead of worker mobilization. Mobilization is too messy, and the leaders might actually have to mingle with the members. Political action is so much more sanitary, and safe. "We tried fellas, if only you guys had given a little more to COPE we could have won this oneâ€￾.â€￾ Dig into your pockets fellas and we will beat them next time".

This is business unionism. In fact you could really just drop unionism. This is business. You keep working. Paying dues and hope that things get better. "Take an active role in your union" they say. Ok, what exactly do they mean? Go to meetings? Wow, that will change your life. It’s easy for union officials to complain about the lack of attendance when they are getting paid to be there. Pay more in COPE? You could donate your entire salary; the other side will still outspend you. How about walking a picket line? No No, We want to have "good" relations with management. When your leader asks for more involvement and complains about the members ask him "exactly what would you like to see us do?

AMFA will not in itself be an answer to all this. But one thing is for sure, the status quo is unacceptable. All we are, all of us airline workers, is a constant revenue source for Unions whose primary interests lie outside of our industry. And we have all paid dearly for their lack of interest.

Bob Owens
Treasurer
Local 562 TWU

 

[LavMan]

Citing SARS, Northwest Invokes Clause to Allow LayoffsBy MICHELINE MAYNARD


orthwest Airlines, citing a decline in Asian traffic because of the outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, has invoked an emergency clause in its labor contracts that allows it to lay off employees without notice.
The action is the first by an airline to invoke the clause, called force majeure, in response to the illness, known as SARS. Airlines around the world have experienced double-digit declines in traffic to Asia, where Northwest and United Airlines are the two major American carriers.

Officials of the union representing Northwest''s mechanics, which was informed of the move in a letter from Northwest on Tuesday, said yesterday that the airline was exaggerating the impact of SARS as part of its campaign to win $1 billion in wage and benefit concessions from its unionized workers.
"What if we come back and say, `No way, we''re not giving concessions to Northwest again?'' " said James Atkinson, president of the union, Local 33 of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. "If that happens, here''s their answer: `We''re invoking force majeure and taking out another 1,000 technicians.'' "
It was the third time in 18 months that Northwest, the nation''s fourth-largest airline, has invoked force majeure. It took that step after the September 2001 attacks and again in March, citing the war in Iraq, when it was the only airline in the United States to invoke the clause.
Mary Stanik, a spokeswoman for the airline, said Northwest did not plan any immediate layoffs.
On Tuesday, Northwest said that its traffic on flights to the Pacific dropped 25 percent in April from year-ago levels, measured by available seat miles. Its load factor to the Pacific, reflecting the number of paying passengers on its flights, was 63 percent, down 10 percentage points from a year ago.
Northwest is the largest United States carrier to Japan, where Tokyo is it main hub for flights to the rest of Asia, including Hong Kong, where SARS is a concern. Northwest does not serve Hong Kong directly from the United States.
At United, Pacific traffic fell 19.7 percent in April, compared with a year ago. Its load factor on Pacific flights was 50.9 percent.
Despite that, United does not plan to invoke force majeure, said Rich Nelson, a spokesman for the airline. Two months ago, in anticipation of the war in Iraq, United applied a less-sweeping policy that allowed it to furlough workers at all levels of the company for brief periods without pay. That policy remains in effect, but United does not see a need to invoke the broader force majeure clause either because of the war or SARS, Mr. Nelson said.
Northwest and its unions have tangled over whether the airline''s fortunes are dire enough to require the kind of concessions that United, US Airways and American Airlines have obtained from their workers through bankruptcy or the threat of a bankruptcy filing.
Northwest''s chief executive, Richard Anderson, said last month that the airline was in danger of entering Chapter 11 if it could not obtain wage and benefit cuts. Yesterday, Ms. Stanik said the force majeure declaration was "another example of Northwest''s continuing efforts to communicate to its unions the current economic realities."
Though it lost $396 million in the first quarter, analysts have viewed Northwest as in better shape than its rivals, with enough cash to get through the rest of the year. Many analysts regard its efforts to win wage and benefit cuts as a bid to stay competitive with its rivals'' newly lowered costs.
Kevin Mitchell, chairman of the Business Travel Coalition, a trade group for corporate travel departments and business travelers, said that Northwest was risking its credibility by citing SARS as a reason for force majeure, when its Asian business represents only one-quarter of its flights.
"At a time in the industry when we have reached the lowest of low points in terms of trust between employees and management, to use this kind of heavy-handed tactic to wring concessions is, I think, a very counterproductive approach," he said.
The declines in Asian traffic at Northwest and United are far less severe than those experienced by other international carriers. At Air France, traffic to Asia fell 29.5 percent in April. At the Australian carrier Qantas, flights to Hong Kong are down 64 percent from a year ago.

 

[LavMan]

GOING… GOING… GONE!

In 1998 when AMFA was certified (Case number R-6621) as the bargaining agent for Mechanic and Related Class and Craft at Northwest Airlines there were 9,504 employees. Since then the Mechanic and Related classification has been decimated with layoffs and farmouts.

1998………9,405
2001 …… 8,698
2002………7,086
2003…… 4,104

 

[Jet Mechanic]

LavMan,

I know you''re busy spewing about the decrease in NW''s numbers, but perhaps you can post the decrease in the USAirways Mechanic and Related, also??

Can you tell us more about the 400 IAM jobs in your quote below?

Jet Mechanic


----------------
On 5/9/2003 8:02:14 AM LavMan wrote:
In contrast, IAM District 143 President Bobby DePace issued a membership bulletin on May 2, 2003 stating the Northwest Airlines has notified the district there will be an increase of 400 IAM member jobs across the system by June 6, 2003.

 

[cavalier]

It was the third time in 18 months that Northwest, the nation''s fourth-largest airline, has invoked force majeure. It took that step after the September 2001 attacks and again in March, citing the war in Iraq, when it was the only airline in the United States to invoke the clause.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Seems the mighty AMFA is also up against corporate America and scoring the same results as the IAM....nil. But yet we hear the battle cry for the mighty AMFA to save our collective hides. I say it would be jumping straight into the fire at this point getting this new and supposedly superior union to represent U. Think people THINK and leave that foolish rage behind, AMFA is not the answer, an improved economy is the real answer.