AMFA vs Idustrial Unions for elections of National Officers

[WNMECH]

The Teamsters have an opposite opinion.

http://www.teamster.org/content/airtran-mechanics-ratify-seniority-integration-agreement

Actually that statement is correct but is missing something. It was hard for them to spin what really happened.

"The Ibt, after huffing, puffing, holding their breath, storming out of the negotiation room didn't work, caved in and accepted the only offer made to them by the SWA AMFA negotiating team after the company offer was overwhelmingly voted down by AMFA members. And thanks to AMFA and their superior contract, the Airtran mechanics will receive raises and greater benefits that the IBT could never get for them".

The transition agreement was mainly the time line that lists all the AMFA benefits they will get and when they will start getting them. None of this was ever in dispute.
And they only got paid at date of ratification, no retro back to when the IBT was begging for, No signing bonuses, no fences. Only the head count numbers offered from our deal.
If they signed earlier they would have been paid earlier.

 

[Anomaly]

Actually that statement is correct but is missing something. It was hard for them to spin what really happened.

"The Ibt, after huffing, puffing, holding their breath, storming out of the negotiation room didn't work, caved in and accepted the only offer made to them by the SWA AMFA negotiating team after the company offer was overwhelmingly voted down by AMFA members. And thanks to AMFA and their superior contract, the Airtran mechanics will receive raises and greater benefits that the IBT could never get for them".

The transition agreement was mainly the time line that lists all the AMFA benefits they will get and when they will start getting them. None of this was ever in dispute.
And they only got paid at date of ratification, no retro back to when the IBT was begging for, No signing bonuses, no fences. Only the head count numbers offered from our deal.
If they signed earlier they would have been paid earlier.

262 to 65 out of How many? Close to 2500 eligible voters when you add up both groups? You call this overwhelming???

Just goes to show how out of touch you are. It is not that amfa is superior, YOUR AIRLINE IS. SWA leads the way in wages for multiple employee groups. Think about it. It you think amfa is truly owns the magic behind the curtain, why are Alaska mechanics so far behind SWA? What happened to Mesaba? Why are AS techs behind UAL and CO? Why does SWA mechanics per aircraft equal one of the lowest in the industry?

Just check out this page for a great flash back. Even this amfa loving maniac agrees AT got a raw deal.

http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/52597-ibt-no-show-forum/page__st__1130

 

[AC Tynker]

Thanks for the info Tynker,
My post still stands regardless of where Anomaly works.

From his defense of every word negative of the reamsters and the old local 19, I thought he was J.D. potter himself.

No problem

 

[WNMECH]

262 to 65 out of How many? Close to 2500 eligible voters when you add up both groups? You call this overwhelming???

Just goes to show how out of touch you are.

No it just shows you are a dumbass.

That is only the Airtran mechanics votes.
With only about 350 of them eligible to vote.
Of those voting it was about 80% for 20% against.

Yes I call that overwhelming.

On the SWA side there were 1750 eligible to vote
1214 voted (69% of eligible)

874 for 65%
424 against 35%
6 abstain.

I said Airtran voted for it overwhelmingly not SWA.

Pull your head out.

 

[WNMECH]

I stand behind everyone of my posts ever made.
I have many better than the ones you dug up.

I am flattered that you took the time to investigate my old posts.

If you read all them instead of selectively cutting some out of an argument I had with xUt, or xNUT as I liked to call him, then you would know I don't think AMFA is a fix all for a groups problems.

I just really like the system that basically allows us to govern ourselves without an overbearing international telling us what to do because they think they know best.

I have even said on here that if AA goes AMFA it will hurt SWA mechanics influence and by sheer numbers AA mechanics can vote their members to most leadership positions in AMFA and control its future.

We decided it was time for us to handle our own affairs and we used AMFA as the vehicle to do it.

Nothing is perfect but we like controlling our business so far.

I said if AMFA national tried to screw us by organizing Airtran before we settled SLI, we would dump them and I meant it.

I am not an AMFA loving maniac, but if we ever felt the need to leave AMFA I can promise that it would only be to start our own union, never to go back to the shackles of the big industrial unions.

I IBT came to our homes when this whole merger was announced.
They wanted us to tell them if we wanted them back.

I couldn't stop laughing but told him politely as I could "no thanks".

 

[Anomaly]

I stand behind everyone of my posts ever made.
I have many better than the ones you dug up.

I am flattered that you took the time to investigate my old posts.

Why does SWA mechanics per aircraft equal one of the lowest in the industry?

It is not that amfa is superior, YOUR AIRLINE IS. SWA leads the way in wages for multiple employee groups. Think about it. It you think amfa is truly owns the magic behind the curtain, why are Alaska mechanics so far behind SWA? What happened to Mesaba? Why are AS techs behind UAL and CO?

 

[Anomaly]

No it just shows you are a dumbass.

That is only the Airtran mechanics votes.
With only about 350 of them eligible to vote.
Of those voting it was about 80% for 20% against.

Yes I call that overwhelming.

On the SWA side there were 1750 eligible to vote
1214 voted (69% of eligible)

874 for 65%
424 against 35%
6 abstain.

I said Airtran voted for it overwhelmingly not SWA.

Pull your head out.

And I have reduced you too to name calling. You amfa guys are just too easy.

 

[WNMECH]

And I have reduced you too to name calling. You amfa guys are just too easy.

Ahhh.... You called we a maniac first.
I guess you teamsters are easier.

Why are you always so wrong?

 

[Anomaly]

Why does SWA mechanics per aircraft equal one of the lowest in the industry?

It is not that amfa is superior, SOUTHWEST AIRLINE IS. SWA leads the way in wages for multiple employee groups. Think about it. It you think amfa is truly owns the magic behind the curtain, why are Alaska mechanics so far behind SWA? What happened to Mesaba? Why are AS techs behind UAL and CO?

 

[WNMECH]

Ok so you are breaking out as many IBT talking points as you can type.
The teamsters must be sending them to you as fast as they can.

I will say it again.
AMFA or ANY union are not perfect.
For every single thing you blame on AMFA, I could post ten things to blame the teamsters for.
Like, the teamsters didn't have a problem with our outsourcing and mechanic to planes ratio when they represented us. So why do you now?

I like the AMFAs democratic system and our autonomy.
Some groups will never be able to take control of their business and may want a big bloated union taking their money,telling them what to do and handling everything.

I do not.

And I know that AMTs are smart enough to do it.
We are not dishwashers or doormen or truck drivers.

I will never say AMFA will come in and fix all anyone's problems.
But the IBT won't either and with them you will have no control of anything just like the TWU.

 

[enough already]

And I have reduced you too to name calling. You amfa guys are just too easy.

So, again you deflect the FACTS that he points out to prove you wrong.

 

[WNMECH]

The vote totals Anomaly listed and I listed were to the last deal we voted in.
It was presented to the IBT by our negotiating committee.
It was the second deal voted on.
I said this about that deal.

Let's start at the beginning.
Airtran mechs voted overwhelmingly to trade raises for 4 years seniority. Argue with them about it.

The first TA voted on was a company deal that the IBT loved, yet we did not like many things in it.
Airtran also voted that one in by over 80% while we voted it down.
that is the voted referred to in this post below.

Actually that statement is correct but is missing something. It was hard for them to spin what really happened.

"The Ibt, after huffing, puffing, holding their breath, storming out of the negotiation room didn't work, caved in and accepted the only offer made to them by the SWA AMFA negotiating team after the company offer was overwhelmingly voted down by AMFA members. And thanks to AMFA and their superior contract, the Airtran mechanics will receive raises and greater benefits that the IBT could never get for them"

While the Airtran yes vote totals for the first are available somewhere on the web, AMFA did not release our no vote totals to the public.
SWA AMFA members can get them if they want to.

The votes for the AMFA – Southwest Airlines Seniority Integration Package Referendum were tallied on February 21, 2012. Ballots for this referendum were counted and certified by TrueBallot, Inc. The results are as follows:

Seniority Integration Package -- Rejected​

*The detailed breakdown of voting results for this, as well as the recent LOAs to the Mechanic’s contract, are being held for confidentiality considerations for the ongoing process. The typical voting results report will be shared once the process is complete

 

[Anomaly]

The vote totals Anomaly listed and I listed were to the last deal we voted in.
It was presented to the IBT by our negotiating committee.
It was the second deal voted on.
I said this about that deal.





The first TA voted on was a company deal that the IBT loved, yet we did not like many things in it.
Airtran also voted that one in by over 80% while we voted it down.
that is the voted referred to in this post below.



While the Airtran yes vote totals for the first are available somewhere on the web, AMFA did not release our no vote totals to the public.
SWA AMFA members can get them if they want to.

The votes for the AMFA – Southwest Airlines Seniority Integration Package Referendum were tallied on February 21, 2012. Ballots for this referendum were counted and certified by TrueBallot, Inc. The results are as follows:

Seniority Integration Package -- Rejected​

*The detailed breakdown of voting results for this, as well as the recent LOAs to the Mechanic’s contract, are being held for confidentiality considerations for the ongoing process. The typical voting results report will be shared once the process is complete

Cloud the issues all you want, the very simple fact at least for me is my seniority is everything. I worked to get it and worked to keep it. I worry about the company doing something to my seniority, but I should never have to worry about the union stealing my seniority. They are in place to help protect that most valuable commodity.

amfa instigated a loss of seniority for a group of mechanics simple because they were forced to change companies. You did it out of spite because you could not get the "what's in it for me".

 

[WNMECH]

Cloud the issues all you want, the very simple fact at least for me is my seniority is everything. I worked to get it and worked to keep it. I worry about the company doing something to my seniority, but I should never have to worry about the union stealing my seniority. They are in place to help protect that most valuable commodity.

amfa instigated a loss of seniority for a group of mechanics simple because they were forced to change companies. You did it out of spite because you could not get the "what's in it for me".

No actually AMFA members got an increase in our seniority.


The IBT is the only one that got a decrease in seniority for their members.
Way to go teamsters.

 

[Bob Owens]

Cloud the issues all you want, the very simple fact at least for me is my seniority is everything. I worked to get it and worked to keep it. I worry about the company doing something to my seniority, but I should never have to worry about the union stealing my seniority. They are in place to help protect that most valuable commodity.

So being the senior man at the worst paying job is your objective?

If SWA were to buy AA tomorrow I'd gladly accept being stapled in exchange for a $30,000 a year payraise. The Airtran guys hit the Jackpot, now they are complianing because there's no cherry on top.

When EAL workers were forced to change companies how much seniority did they get to carry? When Pan Am workers were forced to change companies how much seniority did they carry? Do you think its a good thing to allow the companies actions to determine the seniority of workers in this industry?

You work for seniority, I work for money.