Any news on TLV service and AA's obligations?

[737823]

is there a way to tell how many local vs connecting traffic for the tlv flight? also is it more profitable from tlv to phl than the other way around?

Robbed, most of the PHL-TLV traffic is connecting traffic from major cities like BOS, LAX, MIA, ORD, NYC, and SFO which are the top O&D destinations for TLV. Not sure on the average fares, but I would assume the vast majority of the traffic on that flight originates in the United States as round trip travel.

Josh

 

[robbedagain]

i know we get large numbers of pax travelling to tlv   bwi-phl-tlv   

 

[FWAAA]

From the numbers that eolesen provided and linked earlier,  the three airports in the WAS area (BWI, DCA and IAD) account for about as much total O&D as MIA.   

 

[SS255]

Robbed, most of the PHL-TLV traffic is connecting traffic from major cities like BOS, LAX, MIA, ORD, NYC, and SFO which are the top O&D destinations for TLV. Not sure on the average fares, but I would assume the vast majority of the traffic on that flight originates in the United States as round trip travel.
Josh

Just curious why pax originating in NYC would connect in PHL instead of flying nonstop. Is US that much cheaper than LY or UA?

 

[737823]

Just curious why pax originating in NYC would connect in PHL instead of flying nonstop. Is US that much cheaper than LY or UA?

Not saying it happens in large numbers, just saying NYC is the largest US-TLV O&D market, so it's safe to assume at least some connection originate at NYC airports. Perhaps if it's cheaper or pax have US miles or prefer the Envoy product to DL/LY/UA options.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

because US undercuts many fares offered by other carriers from NYC... that is precisely why they have so many PHL-NYC flights as part of the Advantage fare program which the DOJ highlighted.

Not only does the cost of offering US' low fares go up with the merger but it strategically makes a whole lot less sense for new AA with its hubs to be undercutting other carriers who could just as easily undercut AA's large hubs.

The DOJ's whole divestiture thesis is based around the reality that the network carriers do not typically undercut each other but US does so the number of flights that have to be operated by low fare carriers that don't "respect" network carrier pricing has to go up.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

They really should add MIA-TLV, flying US MIA-PHL-TLV next week. Absolutely is a market for MIA-TLV, hopefully AA/US will reach a settlement with the Israeli authorities and add more flights. Not sure about US F/As but many of the CO NLA/NTA FAs based at EWR enjoy the TLV trip. Hopefully the AA IMA crews will as well.

Josh

 
The NYC DL FAs hate the TLV trip, at least the ones I know. They actively avoid it. Plus, it's on a rather dumpy 744. Maybe its time for El Al to join Oneworld and AA can have El Al serve all TLV markets though a Joint Venture

 

[737823]

The NYC DL FAs hate the TLV trip, at least the ones I know. They actively avoid it. Plus, it's on a rather dumpy 744. Maybe its time for El Al to join Oneworld and AA can have El Al serve all TLV markets though a Joint Venture

Really? Sure the ex-NWA 744s are old but I quite like the upperdeck BE suites. Prefer the 77L and 77L BE seat but the suites are very nice and the upper deck is quiet and private. In Y they have new AVOD system and all new seats. Why do most F/As avoid the route? Isn't it one of the longest trips from JFK?

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Not for nothing, The NYC based ones I know aren't fans of it, either. Lots of differing reasons.
 
Also, since you're on FB a lot, there's usually some sort of TLV related chatter on the various DL F/A pages. 
 
I'm pretty sure it's one of the longest. W/O looking at a schedule, maybe the longest after NRT? 

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

The new seats and the AVOD helps, but boarding always is a nightmare when you have tons of Hasidic males who refuse to take a seat next to a woman of child-bearing age, etc. Also dietary restrictions and special meal requests make catering and food service an absolute nightmare. I heard the layover is nice, though.
 
Also while the interiors on the 744s have been refreshed, they are still known for last minute maintenance delays

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Really? Sure the ex-NWA 744s are old but I quite like the upperdeck BE suites. Prefer the 77L and 77L BE seat but the suites are very nice and the upper deck is quiet and private. In Y they have new AVOD system and all new seats. Why do most F/As avoid the route? Isn't it one of the longest trips from JFK?

Josh

 
I commuted next to a JFK DL FA who said she "only works" TLV upper deck. Obviously she was super senior though… my crowd is nothing but relative new-hires so they get the crap positions

 

[FWAAA]

Just curious why pax originating in NYC would connect in PHL instead of flying nonstop. Is US that much cheaper than LY or UA?

That's the reality surrounding a lot of PHL-Transatlantic passenger traffic.    US has always had just about the lowest TATL yields, which is to be expected given that its TATL flights depart PHL and CLT instead of higher yielding, higher O&D cities.   Those small towns connected to PHL and CLT by three daily 37-50 seaters don't provide very many TATL passengers.   For instance, 95% of TLV O&D occurs in the top 20 airports.   60% of the total TLV O&D is NYC alone.   
 
US has a long history of filling planes across the Atlantic with lower-yielding passengers.   At the right fares, you can convince a lot of people to connect as long as their time isn't very valuable. 

 

[cynic]

The NYC DL FAs hate the TLV trip, at least the ones I know. They actively avoid it. Plus, it's on a rather dumpy 744. Maybe its time for El Al to join Oneworld and AA can have El Al serve all TLV markets though a Joint Venture

A lot of US FAs aren't fond of it either and it has nothing to do with the airplane.

 

[zethya]

That's the reality surrounding a lot of PHL-Transatlantic passenger traffic.    US has always had just about the lowest TATL yields.............................
 
US has a long history of filling planes across the Atlantic with lower-yielding passengers.   At the right fares, you can convince a lot of people to connect as long as their time isn't very valuable. 

Show me your reference for this statement. Specifically, provide the Trans-Atlantic Yield data (all cities combined) for US, AA and UA for 2012.

 

[700UW]

Actually I posted a while back, US' actually had better profit margin on its TA flying than any other US carrier, I am trying to find the numbers once again.