Bankruptcy Looms Over American Airlines

[WingNaPrayer]

Without combined savings of about $2 billion, or 25 percent a year, from its various labor groups, AMR "could be in bankruptcy by next winter, or even sooner."

And there is your "across the board" figure, someone finally said it. Now, each and every one of you, take your salary/wages you are currently receiving and subtract 25%

Can you still survive on it? Will you still be able to meet your current personal obligations?

Frankly, I'm getting tired of these AMR PR department scare tactics. All of these so called "news stories" are nothing more than corporate-written hyperbole designed to scare the living crap out of employees.

The only thing that is a guarantee at this point is that you will NOT see a reduction of ANY percentage in executive management salaries. None!

Now think twice before you buy into this obvious "propaganda" war between management and labor.

 

[BillLumbergh]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/030203/american_ai...nkruptcy_3.html

 

[Hopeful]

AMR's PR campaign is working. I understand many employees who can retire are submitting theie papers.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

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On 2/4/2003 9:33:41 AM SANman wrote:

If you think that mgmt won't be forced to give up some pay as well.....
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[/blockquote]

You have to remember, there is a HUGE difference between management (upper, middle, lower as in level 3-7) and executive management. They are two entirely different beasts.

 

[ual747mech]

[blockquote]
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On 2/4/2003 8:36:22 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Frankly, I'm getting tired of these AMR PR department scare tactics. All of these so called "news stories" are nothing more than corporate-written hyperbole designed to scare the living crap out of employees.

The only thing that is a guarantee at this point is that you will NOT see a reduction of ANY percentage in executive management salaries. None!

Now think twice before you buy into this obvious "propaganda" war between management and labor.

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[/blockquote]

This was Ual six months ago.....Wing I hope you guys don't end up like us. The majority here had the slightest idea we were so close to bankruptcy. That's probably because everyone thought the government was going to bail us out or management was hiding money.

 

[Wild Onion]

I've heard of a management pay in the works...

 

[SANman]

[blockquote]
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On 2/4/2003 9:38:11 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:

You have to remember, there is a HUGE difference between management (upper, middle, lower as in level 3-7) and executive management. They are two entirely different beasts.
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[/blockquote]

Agreed. But Carty could work for free and you'd save less than a tenth of a percent of what's needed. You're talking about a guy who makes less than 2 777 captains right now, who took a 75% salary/bonus pay cut in 2002. Yes, a huge chunk of his income is options, but those aren't exactly worth a whole lot unless the company recovers, right? And he didn't get extra options when his pay was slashed, as is usually the case with CEO's. Carty's and the other exec's salaries aren't what's driving AMR into the ground right now.

 

[SANman]

[blockquote]
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On 2/4/2003 8:36:22 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Without combined savings of about $2 billion, or 25 percent a year, from its various labor groups, AMR "could be in bankruptcy by next winter, or even sooner."

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[/blockquote]

Nice selective quoting. That figure is from a Wall Street analyst, "summing up the popular wisdom on Wall Street."

AMR spends $8B + on labor. Already cut $2.5B in expenses, but need to cut another $2B. To do the math for you, 2 divided by 8 is 25%. How exactly is that propaganda? Or do you have a magical formula to increase revenue $2B per year? I'm sure Carty would love to hear it.

Personally, my favorite quote is "labor leaders remain unconvinced that the company followed through with a promise to shrink the size of management by 22 percent." Considering I have friends in departments in DFW that have already gone through TWO rounds of layoffs, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you think that mgmt won't be forced to give up some pay as well, you're an idiot. UA did it. AA will do it as well.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

There's going to be lots of rumors in the air for the next several weeks, such as AA is looking to shed 11,000 heads from it's middle and lower management ranks. Again, just rumors, and we'll have to wait and see what today's "meeting" produces. I am, however, wondering if any advisory board members from non-union groups were invited to attend.


Retirement is no guarantee either if that pension plan goes belly up and lets face it, a lot of TWA retirees who paid absolutely nothing into that plan are now sitting back comfortably sucking it dry, thanks to big daddy Carl and good old AA greed.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

So SANman, your answer then is that labor IS what's driving the company into the ground? Well hell, everyone should just walk off the job right now then and make the death of this carrier quick and painless.

It's not up to labor to right this company, it's up to executive management to create, maintain and market a product that will sell. Slashing labor's wages isn't going to patch the holes in any tires. AA needs to downsize, sell aircraft, give up markets, routes, and gates and do it now. They need to face the fact that they aren't the greatest carrier in the world and fall in line with the ranks of other carriers who are providing a product and a level of service that the traveling public is willing to pay for. You start jacking around with labor's wages and you aren't creating a happy workforce that creates a reflection of company pride that the public can see, you actually end up creating a massive disgruntled workforce that isn't going to care less about the company or it's bottom line anymore, because the company doesn't care about theirs.

Minimum wage - minimum output!

And onion...you're definitely missing something. You need to go back and look at the terms of those agreements from the TWA bankruptcy, especially what american agreed to take over and keep paying for...you might be surprised.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

Wing, what exactly is your agenda?...

You claim to be a non-employee, yet you're vehemently pissed with executive compensation and are banging the "full pay to the last day" drum louder than Bob Owens or any other employee on the boards who have the right to be banging that drum.

You also rarely have facts to back up your statements, so rather than telling people whatever you think the truth is, why not start backing up your statements for a change with some facts?

 

[Wild Onion]

It is my understanding that AA pension benefits are based only on years of credited AA service, and as such, no TWA retires draw on AA pension.

Even for TWAers who came across to AA and have since retires only get credit for AA service.

...or am I missing something?

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Go search for them yourself, they are all over the net. All you need do is plug in "TWA Pension Fund" into any search engine and you'll come up with thousands of pages of information, including AA's agreement to bail out that fund after Icahn cancelled, then raided the fund of 714 Million dollars in 2001.

All you need do is take the effort to go look it up, just like I do - and I can't post any of it here simply because unlike some of you, I am not allowed to cut and paste articles from the net into this newsgroup anymore.

There's lots of stuff on this board that I roll my eyes at, but I don't bother to go look it up either. I realize you're corporate, but rather than complain about it, either ignore it, prove it wrong, or shut the hell up!

 

[AAquila]

[blockquote]
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On 2/4/2003 10:43:49 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:

There's lots of stuff on this board that I roll my eyes at, but I don't bother to go look it up either. I realize you're corporate, but rather than complain about it, either ignore it, prove it wrong, or shut the hell up!
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[/blockquote]


This lady has balls, I like that...?

 

[TWAFA007]

[blockquote]
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On 2/4/2003 8:36:22 AM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Now, each and every one of you, take your salary/wages you are currently receiving and subtract 25%

Can you still survive on it? Will you still be able to meet your current personal obligations?
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[/blockquote]
Aloha WNP,

Can you survive on a %25 cut? How about a %100 cut when AA goes belly up. It looks like a race between AA & UAL.

ALOHA, 007