Guess we're getting off topic now but don't you think that it would be dumb not to hire FAs that can actually speak to the customers? Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to fill in spots with unqualified people just b/c they are on a list.
Delta Air Lines Seeks 'Crown Jewel' for New York-JFK Hub: Nonstop Flights to London
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Guess we're getting off topic now but don't you think that it would be dumb not to hire FAs that can actually speak to the customers? Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to fill in spots with unqualified people just b/c they are on a list.
donttouchthebeauty
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- Jan 11, 2006
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FA Mikey
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In other words DAL has to charge 28 dollars to at 60% for the next 4 years just to pay for the rights to fly to LGW.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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Pure speculation. DL did in fact give Pan Am and Western employees full company seniority. So actions speak louder than words.
DL is buying FREQUENCIES in the NYC-London market. DL cannot fly to LHR but Bermuda 2, the US-UK treaty which governs air service between the 2 countries, has capacity limits. The NYC-London market was operating at the capacity limits making it impossible for DL to serve the market unless someone dropped flights. If UA had simply pulled out, AA could have taken the frequencies. UA sold the FREQUENCIES to DL who now is assured of a presence in NYC-London, the world’s largest int’l market and the one UA could not make work.
Before you folks at UA get all worked up about those 40 flights, you best read the rest of the sentence. It is 40 flights PER WEEK or less than 6 daily flights. DL added more service than that to Europe this summer. And yes, UA is adding service on the Pacific but it is coming at the cost of UA’s presence to Europe.
I’d be careful about knocking the 767. UA operates several dozen of them too. In fact, if you didn’t you wouldn’t be serving S. America because you sure as heck can’t come up with enough people to fill a 777.
UA is doing exactly what you would expect UA to do – pull out of highly competitive markets to retrench to the Pacific which has held the company together for 20 years. Spin it however you want but UA is becoming a less global airline with a greater concentration in Asia. Yes, it’s the right move from a profit standpoint but it underlines how fragile UA is and how poorly it competes in every market where it is not the dominant carrier…. And even in ORDLHR, UA gets better fares than UA based on DOT data.
DL is buying FREQUENCIES in the NYC-London market. DL cannot fly to LHR but Bermuda 2, the US-UK treaty which governs air service between the 2 countries, has capacity limits. The NYC-London market was operating at the capacity limits making it impossible for DL to serve the market unless someone dropped flights. If UA had simply pulled out, AA could have taken the frequencies. UA sold the FREQUENCIES to DL who now is assured of a presence in NYC-London, the world’s largest int’l market and the one UA could not make work.
Before you folks at UA get all worked up about those 40 flights, you best read the rest of the sentence. It is 40 flights PER WEEK or less than 6 daily flights. DL added more service than that to Europe this summer. And yes, UA is adding service on the Pacific but it is coming at the cost of UA’s presence to Europe.
I’d be careful about knocking the 767. UA operates several dozen of them too. In fact, if you didn’t you wouldn’t be serving S. America because you sure as heck can’t come up with enough people to fill a 777.
UA is doing exactly what you would expect UA to do – pull out of highly competitive markets to retrench to the Pacific which has held the company together for 20 years. Spin it however you want but UA is becoming a less global airline with a greater concentration in Asia. Yes, it’s the right move from a profit standpoint but it underlines how fragile UA is and how poorly it competes in every market where it is not the dominant carrier…. And even in ORDLHR, UA gets better fares than UA based on DOT data.
whlinder
Veteran
I'm not knocking the 767. I am pointing out that each airline is concentrating on serving routes that fit the airplanes they have so they can make as much money as possible.
Do you think that if the WAL and Pan Am employees had just sat on the sidelines that DL, being such a friendly group, would have said here you go, we'll give you your full senority? I doubt it. There was a lot of manuevering behind the scenes that none of us saw in these integrations.
True, they are assured a presence in the market. However, what makes you so sure if UA couldn't make a profit, that DL will? Maybe those $28 dollar fares plus a couple of bucks to cover extras will do it huh?
Face it that route is a dog. CO's routes out of EWR and AA's from JFK will overshadow DL. You'll have to have more than some flights from FL and a few RJ's to fill the seats on that 76. But then again it shouldn't be hard to find people willing to pay 30 bucks to go to London.FA Mikey
Veteran
Every market where AA has had LGW and LHR, the Gatwick flights have been huge dogs. Flights were always full, but lots of familys and tour groups.
Delta is going up against AA's 5 Heathrow, BA's 10 Heathrow and Virgins 3 daily. This not going to be an easy sell.
Delta is going up against AA's 5 Heathrow, BA's 10 Heathrow and Virgins 3 daily. This not going to be an easy sell.
Sure, but as WT said they won the JD Powers award for a superior interior. This should surly make the route profitable (TIC)
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IIRC, Pan Am flight attendants got one year of bidding for each four years at Pan Am. Also, Delta did not honor the seniority list and took who they wanted from Pan Am. Some senior, some junior. Four year flight attendants from Pan Am got on at DL, while 15 year flight attendants were left with out a job.
According to WT...............this was FULL senority. :down: The only thing it was, was a boat load of crap.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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It’s obvious that the UA employees are just sore losers… they can’t stand that little ‘ole bankrupt DL is taking over a route that UA couldn’t manage to hold onto.
AA and UA both bought their LHR rights so they have to make enough money to pay the cost of acquiring the route, just as DL will have to with this route and had to with its continental Europe assets.
DL bought PA’s assets, not the entire airline so they were free to hire whoever they wanted. But they did give the employees seniority.
I’m quite certain this won’t be the last assets DL will be buying from UA so Fly ought to really hope DL is as generous when they go after Pan Am’s Pacific as they were when they bought Pan Am’s Atlantic routes.
Won’t it be fun to go back to this thread in a year when DL’s revenue figures are available from the DOT? I can’t wait to see how well DL will be doing…. I’m sure they will have no trouble generating more revenue than UA did.
AA and UA both bought their LHR rights so they have to make enough money to pay the cost of acquiring the route, just as DL will have to with this route and had to with its continental Europe assets.
DL bought PA’s assets, not the entire airline so they were free to hire whoever they wanted. But they did give the employees seniority.
I’m quite certain this won’t be the last assets DL will be buying from UA so Fly ought to really hope DL is as generous when they go after Pan Am’s Pacific as they were when they bought Pan Am’s Atlantic routes.
Won’t it be fun to go back to this thread in a year when DL’s revenue figures are available from the DOT? I can’t wait to see how well DL will be doing…. I’m sure they will have no trouble generating more revenue than UA did.
FA Mikey
Veteran
Thats funny, what a dream. Do you really think DAL has ANY chance of out bidding AA on any thing?
JAMAKE1
Veteran
World Traveller:
Back in the day, you used to contribute insightful and well-thought postings on these message boards. Then something happened. I think you over-dosed on Delta Kool-Aide or something. Your postings went from insightful and OBjective to downright SUBjective. Your constant PRO-Delta bias has caused you to lose all credibility with me (and others).
In this post-9/11 and LCC era, all legacies have right-sized their operations, deploying their assets in markets that strengthen their market position (just as DL pulled down DFW to strengthen their market position at JFK and ATL). United is no different. UAL has always been a weak competitor in the NYC market compared to DL's strong trans-Atlantic presence and AA's strong South American market position, combined with CO's strong global hub at EWR.
NWA discontinued JFK-NRT after AA's entry into the market. With JAL, ANA, AA, and UA in the market, (and CO over at EWR), it is a prudent business decision for UA to shift the route over to IAD where the airline has less competition and a strong market position in which to provide feed for the NRT route, a position of strength the company did not enjoy at JFK.
This by no means suggests that United is preparing itself to be acquired and by no means suggests that Delta is going to rule the world. Get your head out of the Kool Aide pitcher and come back down to earth...
Back in the day, you used to contribute insightful and well-thought postings on these message boards. Then something happened. I think you over-dosed on Delta Kool-Aide or something. Your postings went from insightful and OBjective to downright SUBjective. Your constant PRO-Delta bias has caused you to lose all credibility with me (and others).
In this post-9/11 and LCC era, all legacies have right-sized their operations, deploying their assets in markets that strengthen their market position (just as DL pulled down DFW to strengthen their market position at JFK and ATL). United is no different. UAL has always been a weak competitor in the NYC market compared to DL's strong trans-Atlantic presence and AA's strong South American market position, combined with CO's strong global hub at EWR.
NWA discontinued JFK-NRT after AA's entry into the market. With JAL, ANA, AA, and UA in the market, (and CO over at EWR), it is a prudent business decision for UA to shift the route over to IAD where the airline has less competition and a strong market position in which to provide feed for the NRT route, a position of strength the company did not enjoy at JFK.
This by no means suggests that United is preparing itself to be acquired and by no means suggests that Delta is going to rule the world. Get your head out of the Kool Aide pitcher and come back down to earth...
In other words, they are investing. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Is WN stupid for spending $$ ahead of time on fuel?
Just out of curiousity...where did you get the terms of the deal?
whatkindoffreshhell
Veteran
WT, your goofiness is hilarious!
JFK-LGW just ain't gonna save Grinstein's stale carcass. Dog-of-a-route.
(for once I've got to compliment Jake Brace for finding a sucker to pay for his move to that deluxe apartment in the sky)
JFK-LGW just ain't gonna save Grinstein's stale carcass. Dog-of-a-route.
(for once I've got to compliment Jake Brace for finding a sucker to pay for his move to that deluxe apartment in the sky)
