East Pilots vs. West Pilots

May 5, 2007
19
0
I am a west pilot.

If we fight each other we will do the following:

Maintain our industry low and bankruptcy employment contract and pay schedule for a long time. We can not get a contract until we work together on it.

We will slow or eliminate the growth plans and opportunistic moves the airline might make. This creates further stagnation for pilot careers.

We will see our airline underperform financially, and this will cost us money when negotiating contract and in profit sharing and common stock value.

We will hate coming to work because of the tension and atmosphere of hatred, envy, and anger.

The airlines that take the steps to get their operation running right, who have some higher level of employee satisfaction and a cooperative work environment, will slowly,but surely, take our passengers away from us. They, and their employees will be the winners. It will be Continental, Southwest, and JetBlue for sure, and maybe the post bankruptcy majors and AMR, with startups like Virgin and maybe Skybus growing and gaining momentum.

Everybody else in the industry will benefit from our internal strife and inability to work together.

I hope the airline management will show some leadership, as well as the unions. We have to get this right or our time will have been wasted, our sacrifice for nothing, and our futures bleak.

I don't know how you overcame whatever inequities may have occurred from the previous mergers, but we are going to need to see some leadership and some compromise to avoid horrible things like five fatal crashes in five years(which many veteran pilots attribute to merger problems) or liquidation, being parted out and sold, or getting swallowed up by a larger carrier.

We can make it work. We can actually win,,, if we do it together!
 
Despite the heated exchanges and chest thumping the public sees on this board, there actually exists a reasonable but silent majority in both groups. If we can just strip away the hyperbole, namely the hyperbole coming from the East ALPA, maybe the reasonable ones can start a dialog to figure out where to go from here.
 
"I don't know how you overcame whatever inequities may have occurred from the previous mergers, but we are going to need to see some leadership and some compromise to avoid horrible things like five fatal crashes in five years(which many veteran pilots attribute to merger problems) or liquidation, being parted out and sold, or getting swallowed up by a larger carrier."

"We can make it work. We can actually win,,, if we do it together!"


I couldn't agree more. Let's get on with the "compromise" thinking if we can. If by "compromise" it's meant that the east just swallows this and grind teeth to nubs ever-after....it won't happen.
 
Once Again,

The time for this was months ago, pre-arbitration. What don't you get?

Cactus

We all get the rhetoric. The hyperbole, The chest thumping, everything. Question is what to do? If ALPA doesn't press the issue, this will set standards for many a merger to come. Regardless of the outcome, a more pressing issue is how to get this airline back on track. This is the short term problem that has long term ramifications.

We get it...

Just my opinion...
 
If ALPA doesn't press the issue, this will set standards for many a merger to come.
That's true but think about what it means: any subsequent arbitration is subject to review and alteration by ALPA. So why bother agreeing to binding arbitration if ALPA can change it? Don't forget that the reason integrations end up in arbitration is because the two sides can't agree. This is why we (the West) say Nicolau's Award is binding and that's that. What other integration process could possibly be considered fair to you guys?
 
That's true but think about what it means: any subsequent arbitration is subject to review and alteration by ALPA. So why bother agreeing to binding arbitration if ALPA can change it? Don't forget that the reason integrations end up in arbitration is because the two sides can't agree. This is why we (the West) say Nicolau's Award is binding and that's that. What other integration process could possibly be considered fair to you guys?

The job of any union whether is ALPA, IAM, CWA, AFA, TWU is to assure it's members recieve the best possible contract, merger, and solution to the problems therein. If one side feel jaded, or mis-represented for lack of a better word...then its the job of it's union to fight for that group. Regardless of it's outcome.

Just my opinion...
 
The simple way out of this is to create fences.

The East keeps their flying/attrition and the West keep their flying/attrition and then new growth flying is split between the groups.

This can be negotiated quickly, otherwise, the East pilots are ready and willing to go to war.

It's really just that simple.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
The simple way out of this is to create fences.

The East keeps their flying/attrition and the West keep their flying/attrition and then new growth flying is split between the groups.

This can be negotiated quickly, otherwise, the East pilots are ready and willing to go to war.

It's really just that simple.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Well get in there, get after it, and get it done then. Someone as brilliant, persuasive, and highly regarded as you could surely give the process just the kick it needs. Then you could be the hero, the one who saved us all from armegeddon.

All sarcasm aside, though, I am serious. Would it not be better to start working on negotiating said fences civilly rather than simply tossing threatening ultimatums around?
 
The simple way out of this is to create fences.

The East keeps their flying/attrition and the West keep their flying/attrition and then new growth flying is split between the groups.

This can be negotiated quickly, otherwise, the East pilots are ready and willing to go to war.

It's really just that simple.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

NOPE!!!! not gonna happen. You MEC chose this position and we on the west will not go back after the fact to make ANY deals. The award is what it is and that's all there is to that song.

You guys really do take the cake!! Completely unreasonable with your position from the start. We tried to work out a deal prior to mediation and you remained unreasonable!!! During the whole Mediation process all you said was DOH or nothing. Then we go to ARB present the cases and told to come back no less after the case was over because of your unwillingness to be reasonable and now that it's over you want a deal?? NO WAY NO HOW, that time came and went. Like your reps said "SENIORITY INTEGRATION IS GOING TO BE WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE AND WE ALL WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT" So take their advice pal and live with it!!!

Time to move on the getting a great contract.
 
"NOPE!!!! not gonna happen. You MEC chose this position and we on the west will not go back after the fact to make ANY deals. The award is what it is and that's all there is to that song."

Then embrace the consequences that follow with the same glee you employ to crow so loudly about the "Award".

"Time to move on the getting a great contract."

Yeah..a fine fantasy...and that contract's really going to happen ASAP given the "unity" of the east/west pilot group. What is it out there?...Peyote?/Tequila?..what are you on?
 
AWA320,

The US Airways East MEC has pulled out of joint contract talks and these discussions are currently dead.

Thus, if there are no fences to be negotiated then the West pilots need get on with it and the West MEC needs to start Section VI negotiations with the company, recognize the West pilots will be forced to keep the current seniority list in place, and then watch ALPA East force a NMB sponsored election to see who is going to represent the combined pilots.

And, guess what there is nothing, absolutely nothing you can do about it. Get ready for imposition and to be represented by a union other than ALPA like the Teamsters.

See on the East side the pilots will continue to see significant attrition, rapid movement up the seniority list, improved quality of life, and big pay raises from moving from reserve to blockholder, first officer to captain, and narrowbody to wideboyd pilot.

After all, Doug Parker has said that he is willing to run the two companies independently and while this turmiol is going the AWA pilots will be stuck with stagnation and no pay raises. :up:

Running spearate is perfectly o.k. with the East pilots and is their contractual right. Thus, get on with it! :lol:

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
So when did the East pull the Negotiating Committee?

No word from Captain Stephan yet. Is this more of your "insider" trading, #1858?

Don't forget that Mr. Parker probably has more allegiance to his West Pilots. As Boeing Boy has speculated, you could find all of your flying and new aircraft deliveries have "Gone West".

So much for stagnation of the West growth and upgrades.
 
AWA320,

The US Airways East MEC has pulled out of joint contract talks and these discussions are currently dead.

Thus, if there are no fences to be negotiated then the West pilots need get on with it and the West MEC needs to start Section VI negotiations with the company, recognize the West pilots will be forced to keep the current seniority list in place, and then watch ALPA East force a NMB sponsored election to see who is going to represent the combined pilots.

The time to negotiate was BEFORE ARBITRATION!!
now you folks expect to get a second bite at the apple well I don't think so pal, you people made your beds so now it's time you man up and lay in them...

And, guess what there is nothing, absolutely nothing you can do about it. Get ready for imposition and to be represented by a union other than ALPA like the Teamsters.

See on the East side the pilots will continue to see significant attrition, rapid movement up the seniority list, improved quality of life, and big pay raises from moving from reserve to blockholder, first officer to captain, and narrowbody to wideboyd pilot.

After all, Doug Parker has said that he is willing to run the two companies independently and while this turmiol is going the AWA pilots will be stuck with stagnation and no pay raises. :up:

Running spearate is perfectly o.k. with the East pilots and is their contractual right. Thus, get on with it! :lol:

Regards,

USA320Pilot


You pulled out of joint talks huh??? No I don't think so but you can't know how much I wish you would though!!!



AWA320,

The US Airways East MEC has pulled out of joint contract talks and these discussions are currently dead.

Thus, if there are no fences to be negotiated then the West pilots need get on with it and the West MEC needs to start Section VI negotiations with the company, recognize the West pilots will be forced to keep the current seniority list in place, and then watch ALPA East force a NMB sponsored election to see who is going to represent the combined pilots.

The time to negotiate was BEFORE ARBITRATION!!
now you folks expect to get a second bite at the apple well I don't think so pal, you people made your beds so now it's time you man up and lay in them...


And, guess what there is nothing, absolutely nothing you can do about it. Get ready for imposition and to be represented by a union other than ALPA like the Teamsters.

See on the East side the pilots will continue to see significant attrition, rapid movement up the seniority list, improved quality of life, and big pay raises from moving from reserve to blockholder, first officer to captain, and narrowbody to wideboyd pilot.

After all, Doug Parker has said that he is willing to run the two companies independently and while this turmiol is going the AWA pilots will be stuck with stagnation and no pay raises. :up:

Running spearate is perfectly o.k. with the East pilots and is their contractual right. Thus, get on with it! :lol:

Regards,

USA320Pilot

You pulled out of joint talks huh??? No I don't think so but you can't know how much I wish you would though!!!



So when did the East pull the Negotiating Committee?

No word from Captain Stephan yet. Is this more of your "insider" trading, #1858?

Don't forget that Mr. Parker probably has more allegiance to his West Pilots. As Boeing Boy has speculated, you could find all of your flying and new aircraft deliveries have "Gone West".

So much for stagnation of the West growth and upgrades.

They haven't!!!

Now word from David Seymore is "the comapany is aware of the proplems and they will place the a/c where they need in order to survive".

The east folks are about to find themselves in a place they don't want to be and we will welcome the new flying in the west!!! To them I say continue with your plan to harm the company, can't wait...
 
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