If we do reduce our size again January we should change our name back to Allegheny because that is all that we really are again, one great big regional carrier. the big airline [STRONG]without[/STRONG] the hometown touch.[BR][BR][BR][BR]Just a side not and I would like some feedback. [BR][BR]Was Deregulation a mistake?[BR][BR]Do you think Regulation should be reintroduced?[BR][BR]Did US Air turn its back on PIT?[BR][BR][A href=http://www.airliners.net/open.file/180273/M/][IMG height=118 alt=Click for larger version src=http://www.airliners.net/photos/small/3/7/2/180273.jpg width=200 border=0][/A]
End of PIT hub???!!!
- Thread starter usresman
- Start date
I have been reading some of the posts and would like to get feedback if the rumors are truthful about the PIT hub going down to 10 mainline gates.
That would be something!! I remember that Allegheny County built the new terminal for USAir. The old terminal was bursting at the seams. (Remember the dark halls, leaky roof, and sewer gas smell in the basement).
When USAir moved to the new terminal in 1992, they had 50 mainline gates, 3 international gates, and 25 or so commuter gates in concourse E. If they go down to 10 mainline gates, what will happen to the rest.
Anyone information would be greatly appreciated...
That would be something!! I remember that Allegheny County built the new terminal for USAir. The old terminal was bursting at the seams. (Remember the dark halls, leaky roof, and sewer gas smell in the basement).
When USAir moved to the new terminal in 1992, they had 50 mainline gates, 3 international gates, and 25 or so commuter gates in concourse E. If they go down to 10 mainline gates, what will happen to the rest.
Anyone information would be greatly appreciated...
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
If US drops to 10-20 mainline gates at PIT, the city/county/state should, in order, do the following:
1. Refuse any further subsidies to US. This includes telling US to get stuffed on building a new hanger.
2. Immediately invite/beg/bribe/steal to get LUV, Jetblue, or any other low fare airline in here.
3. Not pay for the conversion of gates to RJ usage in any way.
We've coddled US for decades, and been rewarded with a couple of billion in debt for a great facility that may very well go the way of CVG, and as an extra added bonus, the 6th highest airfare in the country.
I don't believe in corporate wellfare in any form, and PIT has bent over for US in it's many forms far too many times.
Don't get me wrong, I like the US frontline service, but this business of bending over for the hometown airline is silly (the same way it's silly for AA in DFW/STL, UA in SFO, DL in ATL, etc).
1. Refuse any further subsidies to US. This includes telling US to get stuffed on building a new hanger.
2. Immediately invite/beg/bribe/steal to get LUV, Jetblue, or any other low fare airline in here.
3. Not pay for the conversion of gates to RJ usage in any way.
We've coddled US for decades, and been rewarded with a couple of billion in debt for a great facility that may very well go the way of CVG, and as an extra added bonus, the 6th highest airfare in the country.
I don't believe in corporate wellfare in any form, and PIT has bent over for US in it's many forms far too many times.
Don't get me wrong, I like the US frontline service, but this business of bending over for the hometown airline is silly (the same way it's silly for AA in DFW/STL, UA in SFO, DL in ATL, etc).
As a passenger I love the facility. And it's great to connect through because of the lack of congestion in the skies and on the ground and weather isn't nearly the problem in PIT that it is in PHL.
But from the airline's POV it certainly seems to make a lot of sense to shrink PIT.
But from the airline's POV it certainly seems to make a lot of sense to shrink PIT.
FrugalFlyer
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 254
- 0
[blockquote]
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On 10/19/2002 2:36:53 PM TomBascom wrote:
As a passenger I love the facility. And it's great to connect through because of the lack of congestion in the skies and on the ground and weather isn't nearly the problem in PIT that it is in PHL.
But from the airline's POV it certainly seems to make a lot of sense to shrink PIT.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I also, as a passenger, find PIT to be a nice airport. But, I think it is inevitable that PIT will be converted to a CVG/CLE clone. This is what is best for US Airways.
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On 10/19/2002 2:36:53 PM TomBascom wrote:
As a passenger I love the facility. And it's great to connect through because of the lack of congestion in the skies and on the ground and weather isn't nearly the problem in PIT that it is in PHL.
But from the airline's POV it certainly seems to make a lot of sense to shrink PIT.
----------------
[/blockquote]
I also, as a passenger, find PIT to be a nice airport. But, I think it is inevitable that PIT will be converted to a CVG/CLE clone. This is what is best for US Airways.
Why is it that everyone expects a B-777 on every route they fly upon and complain if it happens to be something smaller? The new EMB-170/175 will have more room for you than larger aircraft such as the B-737 or MD-80.
It is easy to look down upon future changes to the PIT hub, but that is a strange thing to do. Would you prefer that US pull out of the city much as they did in BWI? Instead, you will see more flights, direct to more locations, with greater frequency, the large majority of which will be in jet equipment. Think along the lines of CVG or CLE and you will get an idea of what to expect.
PIT must become a profitable hub. I fail to understand why anyone in or outside of PIT would prefer Airways to pull out instead of changing the style of service. Go figure...
It is easy to look down upon future changes to the PIT hub, but that is a strange thing to do. Would you prefer that US pull out of the city much as they did in BWI? Instead, you will see more flights, direct to more locations, with greater frequency, the large majority of which will be in jet equipment. Think along the lines of CVG or CLE and you will get an idea of what to expect.
PIT must become a profitable hub. I fail to understand why anyone in or outside of PIT would prefer Airways to pull out instead of changing the style of service. Go figure...
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
Chip,
As I mentioned, I have no qualms with PIT as a facility. It's the cream of the crop, and you are spot on with your statement that the PIT cachement area needs a few more million people to make it a viable O&D based hub.
That said, I do not believe the company line about making PIT the East/West hub. Were that the case, surely US would not have cut frequencies to SFO, LAX, SEA and so forth in the latest round of flight cutbacks. While I cannot speak for these flights during the week, I frequently fly to and from SFO, LAX, and SEA during the Thurs-Mon part of the week, and the existing flight were packed. This does not lead me to believe anything about PIT becoming an east/west hub; indeed, it leads me to believe that the second coming of CVG is not that far off. Quite honestly, if given the choice between having a CVG type facility or expanded competition, I'd rather pay lower fares and connect that continue to dole out sky-high fares to sit on an RJ direct.
As for the county, I live in Cranberry for a reason. I (and my tax dollars) will not be part and parcel to the county's effort to save jobs by encouraging failing companies (and, until very recently, US falls into this category) to continue to fail by providing infrastructure at the expense of the taxpayer. Further, as US will freely admit, while they might continue to create jobs in PIT, they will be of the much lesser paying variety at MDT--something that even the union politicos cannot be happy about.
Unless and until the cartel airlines, US included, are forced to operate as money making enterprises, the current spiral of uncertainty and taxpayer bailouts will continue.
As I mentioned, I have no qualms with PIT as a facility. It's the cream of the crop, and you are spot on with your statement that the PIT cachement area needs a few more million people to make it a viable O&D based hub.
That said, I do not believe the company line about making PIT the East/West hub. Were that the case, surely US would not have cut frequencies to SFO, LAX, SEA and so forth in the latest round of flight cutbacks. While I cannot speak for these flights during the week, I frequently fly to and from SFO, LAX, and SEA during the Thurs-Mon part of the week, and the existing flight were packed. This does not lead me to believe anything about PIT becoming an east/west hub; indeed, it leads me to believe that the second coming of CVG is not that far off. Quite honestly, if given the choice between having a CVG type facility or expanded competition, I'd rather pay lower fares and connect that continue to dole out sky-high fares to sit on an RJ direct.
As for the county, I live in Cranberry for a reason. I (and my tax dollars) will not be part and parcel to the county's effort to save jobs by encouraging failing companies (and, until very recently, US falls into this category) to continue to fail by providing infrastructure at the expense of the taxpayer. Further, as US will freely admit, while they might continue to create jobs in PIT, they will be of the much lesser paying variety at MDT--something that even the union politicos cannot be happy about.
Unless and until the cartel airlines, US included, are forced to operate as money making enterprises, the current spiral of uncertainty and taxpayer bailouts will continue.
C
chipmunn
Guest
PIT has a superior airport facility and if not the best in the world, in my opinion is close to the top of the list of best worldwide airport. The only problem this airport has is that it is located in an area that needs only 3 million more residents.
PIT is a poor O&D market and its value is in connecting traffic; however, in a depressed economy there is reduced connecting traffic. Siomply put, the airport requires signficant and quality feed to compete. Therefore, in the interest of sentiment, does the airline continue to operate money-losing flights PIT until it goes out of business or should the company prune the operation during this economic downturn and return servide when the market will permit?
The business plan is to directionalize the traffic flow, create a East-West focus, and create a platform similar to Delta in CVG.
With unused office, hangar, and training facilities, PIT is an excellent choice to base MDA and the new subsidiary will provide more feed to grow the mainline at some point in the future.
CluebyFour, I doubt Allegheny County shares your emotional opinion and fully understands the economic value of US and its MDA subsidiary. US may elect to temporarily downsize PIT and other hubs during this unprecedented crisis, but PIT is a very important hub that in some respects may be US's most important jewel.
Chip
PIT is a poor O&D market and its value is in connecting traffic; however, in a depressed economy there is reduced connecting traffic. Siomply put, the airport requires signficant and quality feed to compete. Therefore, in the interest of sentiment, does the airline continue to operate money-losing flights PIT until it goes out of business or should the company prune the operation during this economic downturn and return servide when the market will permit?
The business plan is to directionalize the traffic flow, create a East-West focus, and create a platform similar to Delta in CVG.
With unused office, hangar, and training facilities, PIT is an excellent choice to base MDA and the new subsidiary will provide more feed to grow the mainline at some point in the future.
CluebyFour, I doubt Allegheny County shares your emotional opinion and fully understands the economic value of US and its MDA subsidiary. US may elect to temporarily downsize PIT and other hubs during this unprecedented crisis, but PIT is a very important hub that in some respects may be US's most important jewel.
Chip
JFK Fleet Service
Veteran
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/19/2002 10:34:54 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]PIT has a superior airport facility and if not the best in the world, in my opinion is close to the top of the list of best worldwide airport. [/P]
[P]----------------[/P]
[P][FONT size=1]Fly through SIN some time and let us know if PIT can even be mentioned in the same breath as Changi.[/FONT][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/19/2002 10:34:54 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P]PIT has a superior airport facility and if not the best in the world, in my opinion is close to the top of the list of best worldwide airport. [/P]
[P]----------------[/P]
[P][FONT size=1]Fly through SIN some time and let us know if PIT can even be mentioned in the same breath as Changi.[/FONT][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
[BR]ClueByFour -[BR][BR]I live in Cranberry too. There are several hundred US employees that live in our hood as well. So, don't cry when we take our good paying jobs to the other side of the state and the real estate market in Cranberry becomes suddenly saturated with 300K plus homes. I'd like to stay here - people in PIT are the best, but its not looking good.
[BR]JFKFleetService -[BR][BR]I was in Changi not too long ago for business. It is a magnificent facility; however, looks aren't everything. Give me PIT anyday over being crushed by hundreds of people in a people mover. Again, that's not Changi's problem - it's a cultural thing.
CLTBWIDAYSYR
..............the problem is that Allegheny County and the city of Pittsburgh have relied too heavily on USAirways future. It's time for our county commissioners to wake up and start to attract some new service to this airport.
Who knows, all those employees that lost their jobs with USAirways might find a new employer better to work for.
The PIT airport is turning into a ghost town more and more. And that's a shame. I'd take PIT over PHL anyday.
..............the problem is that Allegheny County and the city of Pittsburgh have relied too heavily on USAirways future. It's time for our county commissioners to wake up and start to attract some new service to this airport.
Who knows, all those employees that lost their jobs with USAirways might find a new employer better to work for.
The PIT airport is turning into a ghost town more and more. And that's a shame. I'd take PIT over PHL anyday.
