Federal Bailout $$ Billions, for the Airlines, with 'Conditions' ?

[dfw gen]

Interesting that you only link to the negative story on AA but not another article that says nearly exactly the opposite of what this guy says who clearly has never been a fan of AA.
I also find it interesting he speaks of how AA being tied to JFK could hurt yet fails to mention DL has a much bigger presence there.

Im sure in time we will find out sooner then later

 

[Kev3188]

Sounds to me that you have had issues with this thru-out your career.
Debase you? Really?? You may want to seek some counseling. You really are taking this way too far AND you continue to do so.

He’s not taking it too far; you guys are trying to gaslight him.

The reason they got out of the passenger carrier business is because there was no sustainable market. Amtrak has always been a hot button issue for me. In my opinion they should just let it fail.

I am not sure if the postal service as it exist today is even necessary. The internet (electronic bill pay, advertising, email) has mostly done away with the need for the postal service. I will admit that for legal documents going to private residences and rural areas the postal service is very necessary (however most businesses use FedEx for delivery of legal documents) but let's be honest here....... 90 percent of the postal service today is delivering junk mail. If not for junk mail (destroying trees, polluting the environment with paper, ink, and fuel emissions) you could do away with MOST of the post office.

Seriously how many TONS of trash does the post office deliver to our homes every year that go right into a landfill?

It’s not going anywhere; if for no other reason than being in the Constitution,

 

[1AA]

Interesting that you only link to the negative story on AA but not another article that says nearly exactly the opposite of what this guy says who clearly has never been a fan of AA.
I also find it interesting he speaks of how AA being tied to JFK could hurt yet fails to mention DL has a much bigger presence there.

Then post the other link you mentioned. Do I have to post every related story that comes up on a Google search? Your free to post here like everyone else is. Go for it.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

It’s not going anywhere; if for no other reason than being in the Constitution,

Oh I am not saying get rid of it. The US Postal service is still very important.

What I am saying is it could be MASSIVELY reduced and still be viable. Again, junk mail pretty much keeps the US Postal service in business these days.

We spend massive amounts of time, labor, and resources sending useless, unwanted bits of paper to people's homes only to spend massive amounts of time, labor, and resources having it hauled off to a land fill. I mean the whole thing really is stupid.

 

[T5towbar]

I know that the Post Office does a lot of things and is needed. That 50 Billion pre-funding that the politicians placed (who are trying their best to kill it) is a millstone around their necks. No other business in the history of this country has to pre fund the unborn to the tune of that kind of money. And you wonder why they are going broke.

The Postal Service handles the "last mile" for a lot of shippers, and handles areas that UPS & FedEX can't (and won't) do. It is one of the largest employers for veterans and minorities. I've worked for the PO (part time) for a time, and it is not easy. Working in a Postal Facility sorting mail (not a local Post Office) is no fun. It is tedious, and I wanted to be a carrier, but it would have conflicted with my work schedule. It's not the greatest paying job in the world, but it is stable and the benefits are good. I know that e-mail is now prevalent, and junk mailers and billers are the bulk of its business. Why can't the PO do postal banking like it did before in it's history? It will get rid of the vulture payday lenders and check cashing outfits who are ripping people off. They would do business and have rates like a credit union for low income people. That in itself will keep it in the black. And now in these times it will be more important than ever to vote by mail that some states have. In my state, we don't have it, but it is funny that the example voting ballot is mailed out to your address. That proves you are registered, if you receive the example ballot.

Why is there a big effort to kill it? We all know that UPS; DHL; and FedEX COMBINED can't do what the Post Office does on a daily basis.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The problem I have with this scenario is that allowing one of the big 3 to fail would harm more than just the employees but also the community’s they serve as airfares will go much higher and I doubt congress wants to see that happen.
Sure they might not care but I still believe that since this was not an event that the airlines could have prevented they won’t allow any to fail.
By the way your comparing Pan Am and TWA being allowed is not the same here as they were in trouble prior
That isn’t the case this time

mnuchin says aa will 'borrow' x-amount from the govt - have to pay back 30% of payroll 'grants' over 5 years and pay back whatever low interest loans from the govt.; then we're going to let aa 'fail' and default on this money by potentially cutting off more funds in sept./oct., because it has too much debt compared to united and delta or because pan am and peoples express went out of business.

why bother debating?? i do believe some want to start psychological fires and others actually hope aa goes belly-up.

 

[robbedagain]

Crema. I wld hope that wldnt be the case as our careers be at stake

 

[jimntx]

you're comparing 1991 to 2020? comparing apples to oranges for your historical model?

i know you run the airline industry, but the secretary of the treasury publicly stated that the airline industry will not collapse. he said it's a national security issue and you say 1991 midway and pan am. ok.

how do you change trump's mind? with examples of 1991 midway, eastern and pan am? at the time, i believe there were enough seats from other airlines to pick up the slack. that is not the issue today.

you call anyone who disagrees with you 'skippy'. what would trump and mnuchin call you for your 1991 midway model?

trump and govt. don't want the airlines to fail. the democrats will pick up their dusty union card and also point to the high number of urban airline employees/perceived dem voters and they don't want to the airlines to fail (with conditions for highly paid execs and stock buybacks).

your october scenario of the airline doomsday clock striking 12 is right before elections and yes, maybe you're right. politicians up for election 30 days later will pull the plug on a few hundred thousand jobs.

looks like you'll need to move heaven and earth to have washington walk away from the airlines. something that you seem to want to happen.

And you are using Trumps ability to totally ignore facts as a model for governmental honesty and resolve?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

if things remain at rock bottom for another 4 months, then it would be everyone's career in the aviation industry - unless the govt. steps in and helps, as it has done and has stated that they won't allow the airline industry to collapse.

the debate here is that the govt. will help aa, only to allow it to wither away and collapse, unlike united and delta, who don't really need govt. help because they have lighter debt loads.

this is a fair market condition for unlucky aa and like pan am and peoples express, it will fold up.

no, i don't buy that side of the debate.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

And you are using Trumps ability to totally ignore facts as a model for governmental honesty and resolve?

i don't know, each party has stated how vital the airline industry is to the usa along with transportation being the springboard to jump starting and maintaining an economic recovery.

what else can anyone go by? the president, the vice-president, the secretary of the treasury, the speaker of the house, the senate majority leader...different political parties, all positions of power...etc....etc...etc..

 

[jimntx]

i don't know, each party has stated how vital the airline industry is to the usa along with transportation being the springboard to jump starting and maintaining an economic recovery.

what else can anyone go by? the president, the vice-president, the secretary of the treasury, the speaker of the house, the senate majority leader...different political parties, all positions of power...etc....etc...etc..

And it might be all BS as well. I've lived long enough to see multiple examples of political promises that didn't ever come true. It may turn out that the Donald will support your paycheck only so long as you haven't voted yet.

And, an issue that hasn't been brought up, but probably deserves a separate thread...
As an issue raised many times over the years by the Republicans but mostly ignored by Democrats, and this time applied to the $3 trillion early Christmas gift...whose going to pay for this? Your children? Maybe your grandchildren? Not judgin. Just sayin. Remember, there's only so much funny money that the Feds can print before the value of the U.S. dollar becomes meaningless and we won't be complaining about the price of oil.. We'll be complaining about the price of milk and bread.

 

[Kev3188]

if things remain at rock bottom for another 4 months, then it would be everyone's career in the aviation industry - unless the govt. steps in and helps, as it has done and has stated that they won't allow the airline industry to collapse.

the debate here is that the govt. will help aa, only to allow it to wither away and collapse, unlike united and delta, who don't really need govt. help because they have lighter debt loads.

this is a fair market condition for unlucky aa and like pan am and peoples express, it will fold up.

no, i don't buy that side of the debate.

Demand WILL be at rock bottom through the summer. Most carriers have already stated that if nothing else, May will be much worse than April.


You are correct that this administration has said that aviation is a critical part of this nation’s infrastructure; that’s very different than saying AA is, or DL is, though..

 

[CremaDiLimone]

in 4 months - 2nd week of august. no way most of the nation is still 'locked-down'. there will be more fliers than in march/april...we'll see what the numbers are and what the fares will be.

regardless, i do believe the govt. will continue it's support of the airline industry.

as far as the rest, of course the govt. won't say they wish to save aa or ua...but, there is no airline industry if aa or ua goes belly-up. what the big 3 put into the economy from planes and parts/move freight/pay rent to municipalities/taxes/employees spend and add to commerce/owe debt to american financial institutions and now also to the govt.

paying 30% of the payroll grants back to the govt. over 5 years is very doable. ultra-low interest loans for operations are also a God-send. what is the point of all this now, if the govt. walks away from the airlines in sept./oct.???

 

[Kev3188]

I hear ya, but to say there’s no industry w/o AA or UA (or DL) is wishful thinking. If the Big3 somehow become the Big 1 or 2, industry won’t cease to exist.

 

[robbedagain]

AA has reduced their flight schedule for summer. They has 17% peeps take the VEOP n VLOA not to mention they retired large number planes. If this virus comes back quest is will the admin continue to help airlines or what will happen. Combine that w pax travel not expect to be at pre virus level for a ur if not more