Federal Court Grants US Airways' Request For an Expedited Hearing On A Preliminary Injunction Agains

[Black Swan]

Boy you guys must have the worst luck then. Every time USAPA loses, the judge is found to be stupid or biased or a republican. You guys really are victims of the judicial system, arbitration process, republican anti-labor platform, etc.

Yes, but when we lose to someone like Wake, who almost had the NMB parachute into his court room when the idiot almost tried to impose NICOLAU, there is always a group of clerks in SF who know ten times more about labor law to clean up the mess. That is always worth the wait. They also gave you a clear message about NICOLAU that you conveniently ignore. That, will always come back on you.

 

[Black Swan]

USAPA's postage meter was used.

According to you, and you only. Why would they mail anything like that to any CP office? They wouldn't and you spin falsehoods.

 

[Black Swan]

See what our colleague NYCbusdriver fails to grasp is the judicial philosophy of the Honorable Judge Conrad. A brief google search provided no clues as to whether the Judge is a constructionist or an activist.

Whether he was appointed by Bush or the tooth fairy is immaterial as Eisenhower appointed Earl Warren to the SCOTUS thinking he was a conservative and what we got was one of the most liberal courts in history.

IF, Judge Conrad is a strict Constructionist he will look to precedent. Precedent here can be the level of acceptance of Dr. Lee's theories and calculations. If they were used in other proceedings and deemed to be valid then they will carry a huge weight. If not he could assign very little weight.

This is why I've no idea how it will end.

True, but he will get what happened to Wake if he strays out of bounds.

 

[Move2CLT]

According to you, and you only. Why would they mail anything like that to any CP office? They wouldn't and you spin falsehoods.

Its been entered in to the record. I can understand why you're having a hard time believing that because who could possibly be that stupid. But USAPA can!! Cleary and his merry band has been the best thing to happen to the west. I hope he runs again.

 

[Claxon]

Only one word comes to my mind - troll. Just like the Nos/sum identities.

Jim

A Claxon or Klaxon makes more than noise. A Claxon, when sounded, can warn of impending trouble. This company is in extremely shallow water with labor practices, and will never survive without someone righting the ship. There is no way this company can survive maintaining the continued toxic culture. It is just the start. If the entire employee group cannot stand back, and see where this ship is headed, then they too will be on the shoals. This is an unsustainable culture, that would never be cultivated much less tolerated in the armed forces. Franke Air is a totally correct assessment. This is exactly the culture Bill Franke would cultivate and maintain.


w Do You Know A Workplace Is Toxic?

People go there to do what they feel they have to do (with minimum effort) in order to pick up their wage. They get the heck out of there as fast as they can (the most dangerous place to be is at the front door at finishing time) so they can go and be and do what it is that really excites and engages them.
Even organizations that look and feel like they are extremely successful: high profits, a charismatic and well-thought of CEO, brightness of future, its people say it's a wonderful company to work in, can carry elements of toxicity.

Here Are Some Signs Of A Toxic Workplace

High Absenteeism High Turnover

Slovenly or poorly performed work
High customer complaints
Turf wars and other types of conflict
Verbal or physical intimidation
Sexist or racist comments
Foul language
High workers compensation claims
People not turning up to social functions
High number of personality conflicts
People refusing/avoiding overtime where before they were willing to pitch in
Sure, short-term organizations that have some of these symptoms may achieve results but it is unlikely they will become a great company that is still here in 100 years.

 

[Move2CLT]

Yes, but when we lose to someone like Wake, who almost had the NMB parachute into his court room when the idiot almost tried to impose NICOLAU, there is always a group of clerks in SF who know ten times more about labor law to clean up the mess. That is always worth the wait. They also gave you a clear message about NICOLAU that you conveniently ignore. That, will always come back on you.

Its funny reading these east posts in that they fail to recognize the common denominator in the loss of their pension, LOA 93, Addington, no DOH, etc...

themselves.

 

[700UW]

BS, the NMB doesnt enforce contracts, there would be no way they would get involved in a DFR.

 

[Move2CLT]

Let him vent. Even if he is wrong.

 

[Black Swan]

BS, the NMB doesnt enforce contracts, there would be no way they would get involved in a DFR.

Yes, but Wake was thinking about delving into the real possibility of imposing the Nicolau. ie getting involved in an internal union dispute. He wanted to impose the Nicolau, having absolutely no business or jurisdiction in that matter. That, would get the NMB involved and hence the warning to him. The 9th absolutely backed the fact the Nicolau did not have to be the method of integration used, only no harm. Had he done so, the NMB and/or the 9th would have immediately undone his mistake.

 

[Move2CLT]

No. Not even close.

Please show us what your referring to that helped you cone to that conclusion. I've read pretty much everything and no where does it state what you're claiming.

 

[Black Swan]

No. Not even close.

Please show us what your referring to that helped you cone to that conclusion. I've read pretty much everything and no where does it state what you're claiming.

You need to read more, and stop spinning stories, like the mail issue in the court with the postage meter.
Wake ordered USAPA to implement the Nicolau List. From Bill Wilder. RLA BLOG


Judge issues injunction against US Airways pilots union
Posted on July 27, 2009 by Bill_Wilder
A United States District Judge in Phoenix, AZ last week issued an injunction against the union for the pilots of US Airways, the United State Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA”), in the duty of fair representation lawsuit by a group of former America West pilots arising from a USAPA bargaining proposal on seniority integration of the America West and US Airways pilots in its contract negotiations with US Airways. The judge found that USAPA breached its duty of fair representation to West pilots in presenting its proposal, which abandoned the seniority integration arbitration award issued by Arbitrator George Nicolau under the internal merger procedures of the Air Line Pilots Association, the former union of US Airways’ pilots, in favor of a “date of hire” integrated list that favored East pilots much more than did the Nicolau Award.

The court held that USAPA was a successor to ALPA’s “transition agreement” with US Airways, an agreement that established certain procedures for resolving the contract and seniority integration issues arising from US Airways merger with America West. It further held that USAPA was bound to the Nicolau Award because US Airways “East” pilots had selected ALPA and the US Airways Master Executive Council of ALPA as their representative. Since the East MEC agreed to submit the dispute to ALPA Merger Policy (a purely internal union policy), USAPA was therefore bound to the result of ALPA Merger Policy as successor to ALPA.

The judge rejected USAPA’s claim that it was entitled to use a different seniority integration method than the Nicolau Award for integrating the two pilot groups. He held that USAPA had to come up with another legitimate union objective to depart from the Nicolau Award. The judge then rejected all of the other reasons put forward by USAPA.

The judge held that USAPA’s date of hire method so disfavored the West pilots, including greatly increasing their chance of furlough than would occur under the Nicolau Award, that it was a breach of its duty to represent them. It held that USAPA was motivated by bad faith against West pilots, relying on heated campaign rhetoric against the Nicolau Award by certain USAPA supporters during the election against ALPA.

The judge ordered that USAPA must negotiate to implement the Nicolau Award unchanged into a combined collective bargaining agreement. It also ordered that USAPA could not negotiate separate agreements for the pilot groups. A later hearing on monetary damages, if any, will be held.

This decision is wrong, contradicts established law and is dangerous to the state of the law under the Railway Labor Act.

While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA’s collective bargaining agreement, that in no way restricts USAPA from negotiating any and all terms of that agreement, including the Nicolau Award. The judge nowhere considers precedent, such as Association of Flight Attendants v. United Airlines and Association of Flight Attendants v. US Airways, which hold that a predecessor union’s collective bargaining agreement provides only the beginning point for a successor union’s negotiations and the successor is free to negotiate changes to the agreement. To do otherwise would perpetuate the rejected union as representative.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A Claxon, when sounded, can warn of impending trouble.

When sounded.....By a responsible operator. Not when it goes off all by itself because of a short in the wiring.... A Claxon is just a DUMB device, not knowing why it's blasting away.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Let him vent. Even if he is wrong.

Here is some more interesting reading since we are discussing the Nic....... From Wilders' RLA Blog.The first paragraph is a doozy! This was the 2 Million Dollar Lesson! :unsure:


The court was also wrong about whether the case was ripe to be heard since the only action taken by USAPA was to make a proposal in bargaining. No actual agreement was reached with US Airways to change the Nicolau Award. In fact, the court admitted that US Airways has not responded to the USAPA proposal. So the proposal cannot have caused any injury to the plaintiffs.

The district court held that the case could properly be heard because the statute of limitations might run before the plaintiffs’ could bring suit if they waited for a complete agreement. This is dubious, to say the least, since no one knows what the final agreement might be on seniority and other terms. Since the proposal has no present legal effect you can’t argue that the plaintiffs must file their claim now.

The judge also held that the case should be heard now because of the furloughs ongoing among West pilots. But those furloughs have nothing to do with the USAPA proposal. They are a result of US Airways drawing down its West operation.

Of course, the fact that US Airways is drawing down more on its West operation undermines the entire premise of the Nicolau Award–that West pilots had far greater career expectations and a more viable carrier. Nicolau came to this erroneous conclusion only because of the shallow record before him on America West’s prospects, including his (now obviously wrong) dismissal of a statement by America West President Scott Kirby that AWA had financial distress that required the merger.

Thanks to the court, however, an erroneous arbitration award, based on an erroneous record on the subject of America West’s future, is set in stone.

Finally, the court’s remedy, that USAPA must implement the Nicolau Award unchanged, shows how wrong the court’s decision is. At most, the plaintiffs in this case have proven only that the specific seniority proposal USAPA put forward violates its DFR. That doesn’t mean a different proposal to change the Nicolau Award couldn’t be put forward consistent with the DFR. In fact, the East MEC pilots proposed a settlement to the West pilots prior to ALPA losing its election using a proposal that essentially adopted the Nicolau Award, but mitigated some its effects on the East pilots. That proposal has not been analyzed under DFR, for example, but now under the judge’s order it cannot be put forward.

This decision ignores precedent governing successor unions under the RLA. It defies logic concerning collective bargaining. That one proposal violates the DFR doesn’t mean that all conceivable proposals do. And seniority rights can be structured in a manner to mitigate adverse effects for one employee group while retaining gains for another. Seniority isn’t a zero sum game and not all seniority proposals are created equal.

 

[Move2CLT]

Ah, I see where you got it wrong.

First off, Wake is ordering you to live up to your final and binding arbitration.

Second, Wake wasn't wrong. The merits of the case were never questioned. It was ripeness that put this case on, well, let's just call it hold. So his opinion remains valid and the same decision will come up once DFR 2 comes into the courts.

Remember, it was stated in the appeal that in the future, should Noc not be used, there will be unquestionable ripeness. And, more than likey, it'll be a bench trial with all the Addington evidence being resubmitted.

Please talk to a lawyer before you start quoting stuff. There's a whole big picture out there you're obviously not aware of.

 

[Black Swan]

Ah, I see where you got it wrong.

First off, Wake is ordering you to live up to your final and binding arbitration.

Second, Wake wasn't wrong. The merits of the case were never questioned. It was ripeness that put this case on, well, let's just call it hold. So his opinion remains valid and the same decision will come up once DFR 2 comes into the courts.

Remember, it was stated in the appeal that in the future, should Noc not be used, there will be unquestionable ripeness. And, more than likey, it'll be a bench trial with all the Addington evidence being resubmitted.

Please talk to a lawyer before you start quoting stuff. There's a whole big picture out there you're obviously not aware of.
Also, the damage issue is totally questionable with the discussion of the drawdown of LAS. Your own organization damaged you, not your representative entity. Read Wilder on that too. He is the lawyer you should pay attention to. He has been 100% correct so far.

Well, if Wake were not wrong, why the 9th action? And I am not talking to a lawyer, I am reading one, Bill Wilder. Wake ordering us to live up to binding arbitration? Wake got the binding wrong, as Wilder so aptly elucidates, USAPA is free to negotiate, and they don't have to use the Nic. That, was affirmed by the 9th in case you didn't take the time to read. So we have two legal opinions, one that sticks. The 9th. If it were binding, why hasn't anybody made it stick yet? You had to love the ripeness discussion with Wilder. Too bad Koontz didn't read up on that one, because it was right there in black and white, and Wilder was absolutely correct. Andy Jacobs learned a hard, lesson.
Let's talk postage meters. If one were used, why would anyone in USAPA do it? If it were true, then it was a sabotage incident. Or a set up. I am sure the judge will look at that also. If someone were to send inflammatory information, lanyards etc. from USAPA HQ, then someone was setting the organization up.