Finally - The Outsourcing Truth From American

[AMFAMAN]

What part are you (we) doing to ensure our long term survival at AA in overhaul maintenance?

[post="259595"][/post]​

Gave them the B-scale.

Gave them flex-benefits.

Gave them 8.5 hour days.

1995 contract

OSM's

Pushbacks

Fueling

Deicing

Paid Lunch on OT

2003 concessions

The list goes on and on.

What happened to we saved jobs in exchange for concessions? I have job security along we most others, we are guaranteed a job, so you still have to pay us, we gave enough already. Why don't you donate our union dues to the company; oh that's right, that's your drinking money.

 

[Decision 2004]

What part are you (we) doing to ensure our long term survival at AA in overhaul maintenance?

It takes all of us working together to survive in today's competitive environment.

[post="259595"][/post]​

ALL of us working together?

Tell that to the union members who could get shafted in RIF due to the "red circle" place around the TAESL operation.

"Working Together" to the TWU means violating the labor agreement and signing letters of agreement that circumvent seniority rights.

Why don't you sign your AMFA Card, vote for AMFA and maybe the line mechanic will work your new local leadership?

 

[j7915]

ALL of us working together?

Tell that to the union members who could get shafted in RIF due to the "red circle" place around the TAESL operation.

"Working Together" to the TWU means violating the labor agreement and signing letters of agreement that circumvent seniority rights.

Why don't you sign your AMFA Card, vote for AMFA and maybe the line mechanic will work your new local leadership?

[post="259724"][/post]​

Lets get ONEX to buy TULE, and contract with the OEMs for line maintenance. Why are there several maint operations at airports being served by basically airframes from two manufacturers and three engine builders?

 

[scorpion]

That's interesting, I've been tracking parts lately and have yet to find one worked on inhouse. That's right parts don't count according to AA. I guess engines outsourced after teardown don't count either.

The 42% is much more like it but AA and the twu are scared of the truth.

If AA was telling the truth about the 80-90%, why do they refuse to produce the documentation? It's been put on a grievance and they refuse to answer it. Per the contract, I am entitled to these numbers, why would they hide them?

Why would you, FWAAA, who relies on facts and figures always, suddenly believe the joint twu/AA(lovers) undocumented press release as compared to government documents?

[post="259528"][/post]​

AMFAMAN your about as straight a shooter as they come on these boards and I do appreciate the candor. USA today posted outsourcing numbers from their sources which stated 42% as AA's outsourcing number which is probably alot closer than the joint AA/twu's 20% figure.
Like you i've tried to get the outsourcing numbers per our contract but have gotten no where. I've called the international and personally talked to gless and got shat for an answer so I then emailed the international and we bounced emails back and forth and all I got were silly side step answers until I wrote word for word out of the contract what I was looking for and then the emails stopped. Go figure.

 

[Buck]

Lets get ONEX to buy TULE, and contract with the OEMs for line maintenance. Why are there several maint operations at airports being served by basically airframes from two manufacturers and three engine builders?

[post="259879"][/post]​

j7915:

All you do is make excuses for the poor performance of the labor movement, by showing examples of how they have failed. ONEX is currently in negotiations to restructure the labor agreement. I use the the term negotiations very loosely. All ONEX needs to do is to let the TWU restructure their agreement. That way the members will have no say in their future.

 

[FWAAA]

I agree that AMFAMAN is a straight shooter. And AMFAMAN, I don't always trust AA press releases - I was not being completely serious when I wrote the topic title, but subtle sarcarsm doesn't always come thru loud and clear.

I find it interesting that of the charts prepared by Back Aviation Solutions, the 1990 figures are different on the two charts. Here's a link to the 2002 chart supplied by AMFAMAN a couple weeks ago:

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...ndpost&p=252933


And here's the story containing the 2004 chart supplied by USAToday this week:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/20...elta-cuts_x.htm

And I'm nowhere near as tech-savvy as AMFAMAN or I'd paste the two charts side by side. Perhaps AMFAMAN could do so?

From the AA/TWU press release, it is obvious that AA concedes that its outsourced maintenance is 42% (first 9 mo of 2004) if you don't count TAESL. The real question is whether those employees are considered inhouse or outsourced.

And it is fairly obvious that it isn't quite 42% if you count the 530 AA employees mentioned in the press release. It may not be 10% or 20%, but is sure isn't 42%.

I doubt there's a unanimous view on the answer to that question.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I guess if you look at NWA's reported 52% and how it is inflated by roughly 35%(note...35% of the 52.) over what the contractual formula goes by, you could do the same at AA and that would put the number at roughly 28-30% and NWA at 38-39%. Of course the only way to get an accurate number is to use the same method of calculation for all airlines and let the numbers fall where they do. It was reported that stores will be counted in our numbers, well that dilutes AA's numbers big time. I doubt I still have them, but I will search for the pre-TAESL day outsourcing numbers and compare them to the present numbers, should tell the story for real.

 

[Decision 2004]

And I'm nowhere near as tech-savvy as AMFAMAN or I'd paste the two charts side by side.   Perhaps AMFAMAN could do so?

From the AA/TWU press release, it is obvious that AA concedes that its outsourced maintenance is 42% (first 9 mo of 2004) if you don't count TAESL.   The real question is whether those employees are considered inhouse or outsourced.

And it is fairly obvious that it isn't quite 42% if you count the 530 AA employees mentioned in the press release.   It may not be 10% or 20%, but is sure isn't 42%.

I doubt there's a unanimous view on the answer to that question.

[post="259984"][/post]​

It is interesting that the same so-called "source" has two different percentages for years of the past.

Even USAToday cannot keep the outsource percentage numbers straight.

What are we to do? Our union cannot tell us the numbers, AA cannot tell us the numbers, the media cannot tell us the numbers.

Maybe should ask a politician, they always shoot it straight...LOL

 

[James T. Kirk]

American Airlines and the Transport Workers Union Correct Media Report on Outsourcing
Wednesday March 30, 5:39 pm ET


FORT WORTH, Texas, March 30 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- A media report today indicated that American Airlines outsourced 42 percent of its maintenance work in 2004 -- which is misleading. American has worked closely with the Transport Workers Union to keep the majority of its maintenance work in-house, as long as it can do so and remain competitive. The company does all of its heavy maintenance work and 80 to 90 percent of its total maintenance with American Airlines mechanics.
ADVERTISEMENT


Today's report is based on Department of Transportation (DOT) data, which includes work done through Texas Aero Engine Service Ltd (TAESL), a joint venture formed in 1998 between American Airlines and Rolls-Royce. TAESL does engine repair and overhaul work on the RB211 engine, which American has on its Boeing 757 fleet, and the Trent 800 engine, which powers American's premier Boeing 777 aircraft.

The TAESL repair facility is staffed by more than 530 American Airlines employees and has generated more than 200 additional American Airlines jobs specifically tied to the growth of engine maintenance work performed for new customers.

 

[FWAAA]

American Airlines and the Transport Workers Union Correct Media Report on Outsourcing

[post="260108"][/post]​

Hey, Captain, see post #1. This press release (quoted in post #1) prompted this thread. B)

 

[scorpion]

If American Airlines wishes to truly Capitalize on being the only Major who keeps the majority of their Maintenance "In House" they should start an all out campaign advertisment stating such. outsourcing may be the new trend of the carriers but, it WILL be short lived! funny how Southwest has been bringing more and more work in house because of the downside of third party soon all the others will see why.

[post="259521"][/post]​

This has been a topic of discussion for at least a year now in some of the shops in Tulsa. A guy I work with on a daily basis talked to Art Luby ( the attorney for the twu ) about just that, an advertising campaign that promotes the fact that we do most of our maintenance in house but it went nowhere! Why? Lets go a step further and question why the all powerful aflcio doesn't get involved. Why do we not see them getting with their affiliated unions and promoting inhouse maintenance or at the very least promoting in country maintenance, isn't that one of the benefits of belonging to a union thats affiliated with this organization? How come AA doesn't advertise this aspect of their buisness? They sure promote it from a employee stand point here in tul. If all these outsourcing numbers are correct then AA and their puppet union should go on national tv or at least advertise in national papers the fact that they perform more inhouse maintenance then any other airline and what that percentage is.

 

[High Speed Steel]

This has been a topic of discussion for at least a year now in some of the shops in Tulsa. A guy I work with on a daily basis talked to Art Luby ( the attorney for the twu ) about just that, an advertising campaign that promotes the fact that we do most of our maintenance in house but it went nowhere! Why? Lets go a step further and question why the all powerful aflcio doesn't get involved. Why do we not see them getting with their affiliated unions and promoting inhouse maintenance or at the very least promoting in country maintenance, isn't that one of the benefits of belonging to a union thats affiliated with this organization? How come AA doesn't advertise this aspect of their buisness? They sure promote it from a employee stand point here in tul. If all these outsourcing numbers are correct then AA and their puppet union should go on national tv or at least advertise in national papers the fact that they perform more inhouse maintenance then any other airline and what that percentage is.

[post="260119"][/post]​

On the back of the latest issue of "Crib Notes" which is a newsletter that has become available through the Joint Leadership Program, you will find an advertizement promoting AA Maintenance capabilities. I dont know the intended use for this flyer but it announces AA's capacity to provide third party work at all three maintenance bases TULE, AFW, and MCI. I would assume they will be looking to ways to promote their services to the industry through aviation magazines and such.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Next year when we fly to China, there will be an opportunity for really cheap outsourcing of maintenance.

 

[aafsc]

Next year when we fly to China, there will be an opportunity for really cheap outsourcing of maintenance.

[post="260144"][/post]​

The schedule for the ORD-SHA flight was posted on another website. The plane will only be on the ground in SHA for 3 hours. This is just enough time to unload, fuel, clean, and reload the plane for the return trip to ORD.

 

[FWAAA]

The schedule for the ORD-SHA flight was posted on another website. The plane will only be on the ground in SHA for 3 hours. This is just enough time to unload, fuel, clean, and reload the plane for the return trip to ORD.

[post="260159"][/post]​

Exactly. 2:35 isn't a lot of time to perform heavy maintenance. Hardly enough time to empty it, load the bags, cater it, fill it up and clean the bugs off the windshield.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050401/daf038.html?.v=1