aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
I don't want to fly any airbus, even if it's in my back yard let alone commuting to fly one.
From a US Airways pilot to a AWA pilot
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
I don't want to fly any airbus, even if it's in my back yard let alone commuting to fly one.
FYI, it did exist and was going to implimented on Jan 1, if the merger did not go through. BTW it was not a reduction of 15%, it was a CH7 BK. Bye, Bye HP.....and no i am not from the East, so stop thinking ill....
Mr Furlough
Advanced
- May 14, 2007
- 156
- 10
JetMonkey,
"And one last thing. Every airline has a "project Zanzibar". If you read what Scott's letter says, he mentions that it would've been very unlikly to have been used. You don't go from being in the black straight to bankruptcy. First there's a few quarters of losses, then you hear concessions, then as a last resort you contemplate bk. You guys know the routine all to well, so please don't rush the conclusion of AWA's dismise with "probables". Stick with the facts: growing, hiring, profitable.
[/quote]"
Wow, I am almost at a loss for words (not really!). You clearly don't possess the same vantage point of this industry as I do. Please don't take that as an insult-as that is not the intent. Imagine, if you will, that in 15 years from now, you have a family to support (you know, kids to put thru college and alike), and at that very moment-YOU are placed below a three year guy during a merger.
It cracks me up that 9-11 + bad management brings ME to the point that 3 year guys actually feels as though they have a right to be senior to me. For shame.
How do YOU justify that I should go out on the next furlough prior to you? We both work for the same company, I have 18 years, you 3. How do you justify the 18 year guy being furloughed ahead of yourself? Don't you feel just a little bit uneasy about that? If not, what gives you the right?
Second, there will be mixed crews, you can bet on that. Your projections of Pilots in the west going east and visa versa are wrong. What kind of environment do you anticipate when you are a Captain and your F/O has 15+ years on you? Tension comes to mind, and that has no place in our flight decks.
"Not many will commute clear across the country to fly 330's to Europe, I sure as hell wouldn't. So in a way you will have your fences after all.
Than why not simply put it into writing?
"And remember, the top 500 guys DID get what you wanted, DOH."[/i]
And 1800+ pilots got stapled to the bottom. In fact, most are more experienced in this business than you will be for a great deal of time. Further, they are more experienced that 2/3rds of the people you fly with today. And you think you didn't get a windfall?
"I'm sorry what has happened to all the east pilots over the last two decades, but stapling me to the bottom for the next decade is not how you make up for it."
And stapling US to the bottom is the answer ha? It's not about making up for anything, it's about the rightful place for each pilot based upon DOH. I am truly sorry that you were hired just 3 years ago. In my third year, I was 32 years old, no wife, no kids, simple living-because I knew I was junior and handled the risks that go along with it. I didn't look to staple hundreds of senior pilots underneath me to handle my responsibilities under the seniority system.
" I guess it all depends on what someone's definition of seniority is."
Well I'd love to know what your definition will be in 15 years from now.
"You guys know the routine all to well, so please don't rush the conclusion of AWA's demise with "probables"." As you shouldn't do with us.
Frankly, I am disgusted with your post. When I was in your position it was unconceivable for me to step over an 18 year guy. Yet you have no problem with it. And in that day, there was no 9-11 that played a part in all of this. Yet here you are, ready to cash in on it all.
Tell me, where were you 15 years ago? Because I was flying airplanes for usairways.
PS, please try using spell check!!!!!
"And one last thing. Every airline has a "project Zanzibar". If you read what Scott's letter says, he mentions that it would've been very unlikly to have been used. You don't go from being in the black straight to bankruptcy. First there's a few quarters of losses, then you hear concessions, then as a last resort you contemplate bk. You guys know the routine all to well, so please don't rush the conclusion of AWA's dismise with "probables". Stick with the facts: growing, hiring, profitable.
[/quote]"
Wow, I am almost at a loss for words (not really!). You clearly don't possess the same vantage point of this industry as I do. Please don't take that as an insult-as that is not the intent. Imagine, if you will, that in 15 years from now, you have a family to support (you know, kids to put thru college and alike), and at that very moment-YOU are placed below a three year guy during a merger.
It cracks me up that 9-11 + bad management brings ME to the point that 3 year guys actually feels as though they have a right to be senior to me. For shame.
How do YOU justify that I should go out on the next furlough prior to you? We both work for the same company, I have 18 years, you 3. How do you justify the 18 year guy being furloughed ahead of yourself? Don't you feel just a little bit uneasy about that? If not, what gives you the right?
Second, there will be mixed crews, you can bet on that. Your projections of Pilots in the west going east and visa versa are wrong. What kind of environment do you anticipate when you are a Captain and your F/O has 15+ years on you? Tension comes to mind, and that has no place in our flight decks.
"Not many will commute clear across the country to fly 330's to Europe, I sure as hell wouldn't. So in a way you will have your fences after all.
Than why not simply put it into writing?
"And remember, the top 500 guys DID get what you wanted, DOH."[/i]
And 1800+ pilots got stapled to the bottom. In fact, most are more experienced in this business than you will be for a great deal of time. Further, they are more experienced that 2/3rds of the people you fly with today. And you think you didn't get a windfall?
"I'm sorry what has happened to all the east pilots over the last two decades, but stapling me to the bottom for the next decade is not how you make up for it."
And stapling US to the bottom is the answer ha? It's not about making up for anything, it's about the rightful place for each pilot based upon DOH. I am truly sorry that you were hired just 3 years ago. In my third year, I was 32 years old, no wife, no kids, simple living-because I knew I was junior and handled the risks that go along with it. I didn't look to staple hundreds of senior pilots underneath me to handle my responsibilities under the seniority system.
" I guess it all depends on what someone's definition of seniority is."
Well I'd love to know what your definition will be in 15 years from now.
"You guys know the routine all to well, so please don't rush the conclusion of AWA's demise with "probables"." As you shouldn't do with us.
Frankly, I am disgusted with your post. When I was in your position it was unconceivable for me to step over an 18 year guy. Yet you have no problem with it. And in that day, there was no 9-11 that played a part in all of this. Yet here you are, ready to cash in on it all.
Tell me, where were you 15 years ago? Because I was flying airplanes for usairways.
PS, please try using spell check!!!!!
L
luvn737s
Guest
Is there some violin music to go with this?
Actually with a hefty ATSB loan outstanding, the prospect of the the government letting AWA shaft them with an unnecessary bankruptcy is pretty remote.
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
- Mar 6, 2003
- 1,430
- 1,143
"Actually with a hefty ATSB loan outstanding..."
Yeah. And expain to me why DCA, and in part LGA and BOS were shut down for flights for months/years after 911. I guess PHX was just a little too far from airplanes flying into buildings. U was dealt an unworkable hand in the airline buisness world. We owe you nothing.
Greeter.
Yeah. And expain to me why DCA, and in part LGA and BOS were shut down for flights for months/years after 911. I guess PHX was just a little too far from airplanes flying into buildings. U was dealt an unworkable hand in the airline buisness world. We owe you nothing.
Greeter.
L
luvn737s
Guest
Does "Full Pay to the Last Day" sound familiar? Unworkable hand, that takes the cake!
This must be a good senority integration. The number one guy is happy and the rest of the list is bitching at each other. Isn't that the way it always is? No one is ever happy with a senority integration. Binding arbitration makes this a done deal so move on. And to the 20 year FO who said he would make an 8 year Capt not want to fly from PHL..........Grow up, we all know (at least we hope) you are more of a professional than that. Please do your job like you were hired to, many people depend on you.
flyboeing737
Member
- May 6, 2007
- 78
- 32
Thanks for the letter USA320Pilot. From what I know, this letter seemed to sum it up pretty accurately. As a person on the West, the tiresome, consistent ranting of "we saved their a(*" has grown old, unproductive and self centered. Any HP Pilot that thinks he "lost" in this award is grossly mistaken. I'm afraid that in the end, we may all lose. Unfortunately in the West, people have grown to the point of wishing this merger would never had happened, it's a double edged sword. HP had to merge, the question was, with who? In the beginning it looked promising, now it's looking dismal and for that, I'm discouraged.
Luckily through all of this the FA's have a fair system of Date of Hire Integration and there should be no bad blood between the two.
Luckily through all of this the FA's have a fair system of Date of Hire Integration and there should be no bad blood between the two.
Not for a lack of the HP f/a's trying. They brought DOH up and said it was unjust, even sent out a dvd to the other airline MECP's from AFA. I saw the video, how embarassing. I would have had more respect for them, had they brought this issue up prior to any merger talks. What would have happened if HP had merged with JetBlue? I doubt the issue would have even come up, unless by JetBlue, and then HP would have said, "Sorry, it's in the constitution and bylaws". They knew it was there, nothing hidden. We all knew it was there. The only reason they might not have, is if they didn't read their contracts or C&B's, then they shouldn't talk anyway. It was voted down by the MECP's 15 to 1, guess who the 1 vote was(HP). Now, it is a non-issue, Thankfully.
You are so wrong on the point that you "had no say".
In the past, when I confronted you, you consistently made references to the collapse of Eastern (your uncle-in-law?) and how you were afraid to confront management simply because you were afraid of being "on the street".
With all due respect, sir, it is weak-minded people like you that led to this very situation. Like an abused wife, you and your fellow sycophants went from one abusive executive (exes?) to another, refusing to confront and always counseling calm, advising that when "we declared a profit" we could "do something".
Compromise on seniority in any way, shape or form, should not be allowed on any property. The very concept of slotting, in any form, has encouraged pilots to hire onto just any startup, simply for the chance of bypassing the entire learning process and having a chance at "immediate gratification" of "early" advancement. Slotting represents a "fifth column" in the very structure you are now advocating, merge by seniority, having provided unscrupulous startups a ready source of pilots. Yet, we have consistently staffed our "merger committees" with pilots advocating such a flawed position. ALPA has, perhaps unconsciously, helped construct the very environment that degrades pilot professionalism as well as compensation.
There are more than adequate protections for the A&W pilots, DOH with "conditions and restrictions" of any sort are available, including seat protection, domicile protection or any combination thereof. Anything less exposes our profession to the corrosive effects of any half-assed junk "lawyer" like Glass.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
I NEVER heard the East side ask for DOH. They were for LONGEVITY date. DOH minus furlough time. Full credit for time served to make the company successful. By definition a furlough is a temporary condition, so acknowledgement should be given to the fact that these folks would one day get their jobs back. If anything, they sacrificed MORE than anyone else to make this merger and the company's success occur. I heard some individuals call for DOH, but never their union. I still think that some form of longevity date system would be more fair than what Nicolau came up with, for the simple reason that anyone in the airline business should NOT have any sort of career expectations at this point, therefore both sides are equal in that regard. It is also only right that the East guys get the benefits of their large amounts of retirements about to occur. I'm not even at LCC, yet I see these things as the main stumbling blocks between the two groups.That was not offered, it was DOH or bust. You can even see that in East pilots previous posts from months ago. I am not interested in rehashing the same argument over and over as some do. Have a nice day.
sky high states: Ha! Wait til the East F/A's start transferring out West. If you "were" number 1 in PHX, you can expect to lose your seniority position by a hundred or so more senior EAST F/A's. That in turn, will create animosity, tension on aircraft, that famous "writing each other up" drama and more. Mark my words.
only stating opinions.
