Glading's Delusions

[FWAAA]

From the Department of Counting Chickens Before They're Hatched:

"The company needs to abandon their "zero sum" strategy," said Laura Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants. "The industry outlook is brighter for 2010 and the oneworld antitrust approval and Japan Airlines deal strengthen American's future viability and economic competitiveness."

"Now management needs to invest in their hard-working employees. It's time to put proposals on the table that improve flight attendants' wages, benefits and working conditions."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article...E1_Americ764758

Essentially, the position appears to be AA's prospects appear to be improving, so it's time for big raises now in anticipation of AA's recovery.

That's some unbridled optimism for you.

 

[jersey777]

Laura is just playing the game. Remember, you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. The company can't have it both ways...out of one side of their mouth they are telling their employees that they don't have anymore money for improvements in their contract and on the other side be putting out press releases trumpeting new aircraft, ATI, and basically patting themselves on the back for keeping JAL in Oneworld. Why shouldn't we all be pleased and join in on AA's apparent great management successes?

 

[TWU informer]

Of course we all know that AA Management never uses economic, industry, or company outlook forecast when making their statements or decisions in negotiations or the media.

And no doubt the managment defenders on this bulletin board would never agree that this would be the same as the APFA President using those forecast.

If not now....when?

 

[KCKKen]

Well, this thread shows that some are more content to be on their feet -- while others are content to be on their knees.

The question is which group will win? Glad I don't have to worry about that anymore.......

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Totally agree, FWAAA. And I reject Glading premise that things are going to be rosy enough for a big raise. The economy is still in tatters, with consumer spending way down as people are more focused on their balance sheets than a weekend trip to Miami. Oil is a wild card as it hovers around $80. A big jump in employees costs is the last thing AA needs when so many other factors have so much uncertainty.

 

[jersey777]

Who is talking a big jump in costs? Do you even know what the APFA has specifically asked for in the negotiations? No!!!...because as a member even I don't know. As a "frequent flyer", it is pretty arrogant of you to expect good service while hoping that the people that serve you don't better their lives.

 

[AANOTOK]

Who is talking a big jump in costs? Do you even know what the APFA has specifically asked for in the negotiations? No!!!...because as a member even I don't know. As a "frequent flyer", it is pretty arrogant of you to expect good service while hoping that the people that serve you don't better their lives.

Don't take it personally jersey, you see, these flyers are so afraid that if we do get a raise, the dirt cheap flying that we have been subsidizing for all these years through our givebacks may actually come to an end. Imagine that, AA actually charging enough to cover the cost of flying. :blink:

 

[FWAAA]

Laura is just playing the game. Remember, you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate. The company can't have it both ways...out of one side of their mouth they are telling their employees that they don't have anymore money for improvements in their contract and on the other side be putting out press releases trumpeting new aircraft, ATI, and basically patting themselves on the back for keeping JAL in Oneworld. Why shouldn't we all be pleased and join in on AA's apparent great management successes?

The good news is that the new airplane deliveries will permanently reduce fuel consumption and are actually generating cash this year, since AA is borrowing more than the purchase price. From the recent conference call:

Tom Horton
Sure. We have about $2 billion in financing proceeds and we have about $1.7 billion in cash going out, CapEx associated with those airplanes, so more financing than CapEx. So two reasons for that, one is that for certain of our financing transactions and I probably can’t say much more than that, the proceeds are in excess of the price at which we buy the airplane, because we buy them at very attractive prices under our Boeing deal.

The second reason is that we have pre-delivery deposits on some of these airplanes, which have been paid in the past. So there’s sort of in effect a refund of that via the financing. So those two things together create that $300 million gap, which means that our aircraft deliveries are actually basically cash positive for us in 2010.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/183529-amr...-1&find=amr

Not losing JAL to Skyteam is good and AA/BA/IB ATI is good, but neither has resulted in any additional cash to AA yet. None of AA's recent management successes has resulted in increased earnings yet. To agree to raise pay today in the face of uncertainty would be poor management. Not much different from signing a big car loan and a big mortgage the day you get your first job offer - not very prudent. No doubt you and thousands of FAs will disagree.

 

[eolesen]

Don't take it personally jersey, you see, these flyers are so afraid that if we do get a raise, the dirt cheap flying that we have been subsidizing for all these years through our givebacks may actually come to an end. Imagine that, AA actually charging enough to cover the cost of flying.

I have no fear of what happens if you get a raise, but don't delude yourself into thinking that fares will go up to cover those raises....

Fact is that AA has very little pricing power left. There are a few markets where they can still try to gouge the time sensitive business travelers, but that's been shrinking for decades as people have more and more visibility into what the fares are on Brand X, Y and Z.

In general, business travelers try to be good stewards of their company's money, even when their travel winds up being billed to a client (as mine is about 90% of the time).

So go ahead and raise fares 20%, but the only thing that will guarantee is a lot of unsold seats.

Price sensitive travelers will fly on Brand X to save $10, and avoid AA.

Business travelers holding to a budget will simply fly less often.

Fewer travelers paying more sounds great, but it won't pay for your raises. If anything, you'll see a loss because of all the ancillary revenue lost (e.g. onboard sales, bag fees, etc).

 

[700UW]

Pure BS,

Airlines have never raised ticket prices to give employees raises, as a matter of fact they used concessions to subsidize ticket prices.

 

[TWU informer]

The humor in this thread is that every posting management defender complaining about employee demands for better pay and benefits are NOT the employees who have worked under concessions for 9 years while management has lined their pockets are our expense. They don't even have a DOG in the negotiations fight. They are more like hired guns to monitor the boards and tow the company line. Even seems often the idea is to post information to troll for a response.

What is the cost associated with an outside firm hired to monitor and post this garbage that we all see right through anyway? Does AA actually think we are too stupid to see what takes place here? Time to stop paying for this service right along with the Arpey Consulting Firms.

 

[eolesen]

Now *that's* funny.... I thought you'd given up on the black helicopters and tin foil hat, Dave.

Don't forget I also worked under the concessions, and my wife's job in HR was eliminated as part of the management restructuring. The key difference is I started looking for something better and was able to get out without having to leave my chosen field of work.

 

[Hopeful]

Now *that's* funny.... I thought you'd given up on the black helicopters and tin foil hat, Dave.

Don't forget I also worked under the concessions, and my wife's job in HR was eliminated as part of the management restructuring. The key difference is I started looking for something better and was able to get out without having to leave my chosen field of work.

Eric, do you really find it that impossible to believe the company would not monitor an aviation forum like this one?
For them, this is almost as good as bugging the offices and ready rooms.

Let me remind you of the now defunct THE-MECHANIC.COM forum specifically for airline mechanics. The owner of that website, a former United mechanic, had is computer confiscated by the company with a court order.
United was mighty interested in what was being said on that board.

I think you are wrong, AA monitors this board. What I somewhat disagree with is that they hire someone to monitor. Any one at AA can join and read and post here.

 

[jimntx]

I liked the suggestion that someone else made at one point...

We make the offer to accept the company's offer on pay and work rules for another 3-5 years. In return, it would be written into the contract that there would be

1. No raises at any level of management from Flight Service Manager up to and including Arpey for the duration of the contract.
2. No raises for non-management employees working in management departments for the duration of the contract.
3. No bonusses for any level of management up to and including Arpey for the duration of the contract.

Duration of the contract under RLA means until a new contract is ratified--not just the non-amendable period.

They are serious about the need for no raises in order for the company to recover financially? Fine, but let's make it no raises for anybody, period. Let them find out how it feels to go to the grocery store and find that inflation has given you yet another paycut.

If violations of those 3 rules are discovered, particularly #3, immediate and retroactive 15% pay raise for all flight attendants.

Ya think they might go for that?

 

[Bob Owens]

From the Department of Counting Chickens Before They're Hatched:



http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article...E1_Americ764758

Essentially, the position appears to be AA's prospects appear to be improving, so it's time for big raises now in anticipation of AA's recovery.

That's some unbridled optimism for you.

Isnt that pretty much what you do when you buy stock?