Great Lakes lost UA codeshare?
- Thread starter WooferDog
- Start date
GrahamAF
Member
they still have Frontier
so they can be a totally different animal.
so they can be a totally different animal.
UAL asked for a hearing on June 20th. It looks like the death knell for Lakes unfortunately. United's quotes in the papers concerning Lakes were definitely not friendly and respectful. As a former Laker I always hoped they would make $ again and increase their load factor but the last two years have been especially hard to their bottom line and balance sheet. Mesa will probably get the business, I question it because on their previous pay rates (don't know about the new TA rates) we always heard they made $3/hr more that Lakes Pilots. The managers at UAL with the bad memories of MESA in Denver must have left the company. Should've known that once they get the Dash 8 business, maybe now they've got their foot in the door for more. I sound bitter, but we'll see how MESA does. I hear they've got a fantastic completion rate as Frontier Jet Express in the 45% range. I don't know if Lakes can continue just with the Frontier code share, because (1) can UAL take away Lake's routes and flights which double as Frontier code share flights? and (2) Frontier load factor alone won't be enough I'm afraid.
I like those new Frontier commercials but the totally different animal is United in Bankruptcy.
On the bright side, I still have a job!
AirWisFO
UAL Asks for Okay to End Pact With Great Lakes Aviation
I like those new Frontier commercials but the totally different animal is United in Bankruptcy.
On the bright side, I still have a job!
AirWisFO
UAL Asks for Okay to End Pact With Great Lakes Aviation
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On 6/11/2003 8:58:09 AM GrahamAF wrote:
they still have Frontier
so they can be a totally different animal.
----------------
On 6/11/2003 8:58:09 AM GrahamAF wrote:
they still have Frontier
so they can be a totally different animal.
----------------
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #4
I think that United can''t determine which routes Lakes can and can not have if Lakes is no longer a United Code Share. That is what deregulation is all about, right?
I was under the impression that the United / Mesa code-share applied only to the DASH 8s out of DEN. But it sounds like it also applies to any 1900 route Mesa can get (EAS) out of DEN.
One thing is for sure. A ton of people out in the sticks have not forgiven Mesa for the crap they pulled before Lakes. A lot of people would rather have Lakes than Mesa.
I was under the impression that the United / Mesa code-share applied only to the DASH 8s out of DEN. But it sounds like it also applies to any 1900 route Mesa can get (EAS) out of DEN.
One thing is for sure. A ton of people out in the sticks have not forgiven Mesa for the crap they pulled before Lakes. A lot of people would rather have Lakes than Mesa.
N297UX
Member
You will quickly see Great Lakes move into various markets out of Denver, going head to head with United Express. Some of these moves will be great for Frontier, and interesting to see how Great Lakes performs. The move away from United feed will not necessarily hurt Great Lakes, as most of the markets that United Express would move into probably numbers 5. I don''t think Great Lakes should be too concerned, as I doubt we''ll see AWAC, Mesa, or SkyWest moving into Casper, Worland, Alamosa, etc.
Lets hope Doug & Chuck can pull together and help out the company!
-n
Lets hope Doug & Chuck can pull together and help out the company!
-n
Brbrpole2theOM
Newbie
- Oct 5, 2002
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(cont. from above)
Under the deal, which does not become final until United successfully emerges from bankruptcy, United has the option of allowing one of its United Express carriers to operate into Casper and the four other markets. If United Express enters one of the markets, Great Lakes would be required to drop the United code from its flights - but would not necessarily pull out of the market.
In Casper, where Great Lakes currently operates five daily flights, the regional says it will maintain at least three daily flights even if United Express enters the market.
In the 32 other markets, the United/Great Lakes relationship will remain unchanged. The agreement reached today extends the codeshare deal through April 2007. Great Lakes, also as part of today’s deal, has gained the right to enter into codeshare agreements with other US majors.
“This gives us some things we were looking for,†says Great Lakes president Doug Voss. “We have the freedom to do significantly more codesharing. Restrictions have been removed from our agreement with United.â€
Adds a United spokesman: “The agreement with Great Lakes gives United the freedom to increase our competitiveness and provide an enhanced customer experience, while also allowing Great Lakes to better pursue its commercial interests.â€
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
Seeeeeeeeeee yaaaaaaaaaa
Under the deal, which does not become final until United successfully emerges from bankruptcy, United has the option of allowing one of its United Express carriers to operate into Casper and the four other markets. If United Express enters one of the markets, Great Lakes would be required to drop the United code from its flights - but would not necessarily pull out of the market.
In Casper, where Great Lakes currently operates five daily flights, the regional says it will maintain at least three daily flights even if United Express enters the market.
In the 32 other markets, the United/Great Lakes relationship will remain unchanged. The agreement reached today extends the codeshare deal through April 2007. Great Lakes, also as part of today’s deal, has gained the right to enter into codeshare agreements with other US majors.
“This gives us some things we were looking for,†says Great Lakes president Doug Voss. “We have the freedom to do significantly more codesharing. Restrictions have been removed from our agreement with United.â€
Adds a United spokesman: “The agreement with Great Lakes gives United the freedom to increase our competitiveness and provide an enhanced customer experience, while also allowing Great Lakes to better pursue its commercial interests.â€
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
Seeeeeeeeeee yaaaaaaaaaa
Brbrpole2theOM
Newbie
- Oct 5, 2002
- 4
- 0
Here you go. Lakes continues codeshare with United till 2007. Also we are going to go head to head with United Express in Grand Junction (Be-1900)and Rapid City (Emb-120). Can''t wait to start flying back into the ski towns.
United reaches amended codeshare deal with Great Lakes
Aaron Karp, Washington DC (18Jul03, 21:28 GMT, 355 words)
United Airlines and Great Lakes Aviation have reached an amended codeshare agreement that will allow United Express to potentially operate in five Great Lakes markets and give the regional carrier the opportunity to sign codeshare accords with other US majors.
Under the current deal between the two airlines, Great Lakes carries United’s ‘UA’ code on services from its Denver hub to 37 cities using Raytheon Beech turboprops and Embraer EMB-120 Brasilias. United is not allowed to operate into the markets.
Great Lakes is not a United Express franchise and is instead paid on a revenue sharing formula.
United, which is attempting to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, today reached a tentative agreement with Great Lakes in which the regional will lose its “exclusivity†in five of the 37 markets it operates to using United’s code. Casper, Wyoming is the only one of the five markets disclosed at this time.
United reaches amended codeshare deal with Great Lakes
Aaron Karp, Washington DC (18Jul03, 21:28 GMT, 355 words)
United Airlines and Great Lakes Aviation have reached an amended codeshare agreement that will allow United Express to potentially operate in five Great Lakes markets and give the regional carrier the opportunity to sign codeshare accords with other US majors.
Under the current deal between the two airlines, Great Lakes carries United’s ‘UA’ code on services from its Denver hub to 37 cities using Raytheon Beech turboprops and Embraer EMB-120 Brasilias. United is not allowed to operate into the markets.
Great Lakes is not a United Express franchise and is instead paid on a revenue sharing formula.
United, which is attempting to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, today reached a tentative agreement with Great Lakes in which the regional will lose its “exclusivity†in five of the 37 markets it operates to using United’s code. Casper, Wyoming is the only one of the five markets disclosed at this time.
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On 7/18/2003 8:08:24 PM Brbrpole2theOM wrote:
(cont. from above)
Under the deal, which does not become final until United successfully emerges from bankruptcy, United has the option of allowing one of its United Express carriers to operate into Casper and the four other markets. If United Express enters one of the markets, Great Lakes would be required to drop the United code from its flights - but would not necessarily pull out of the market.
In Casper, where Great Lakes currently operates five daily flights, the regional says it will maintain at least three daily flights even if United Express enters the market.
In the 32 other markets, the United/Great Lakes relationship will remain unchanged. The agreement reached today extends the codeshare deal through April 2007. Great Lakes, also as part of today’s deal, has gained the right to enter into codeshare agreements with other US majors.
“This gives us some things we were looking for,” says Great Lakes president Doug Voss. “We have the freedom to do significantly more codesharing. Restrictions have been removed from our agreement with United.”
Adds a United spokesman: “The agreement with Great Lakes gives United the freedom to increase our competitiveness and provide an enhanced customer experience, while also allowing Great Lakes to better pursue its commercial interests.”
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
Seeeeeeeeeee yaaaaaaaaaa
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On 7/18/2003 8:08:24 PM Brbrpole2theOM wrote:
(cont. from above)
Under the deal, which does not become final until United successfully emerges from bankruptcy, United has the option of allowing one of its United Express carriers to operate into Casper and the four other markets. If United Express enters one of the markets, Great Lakes would be required to drop the United code from its flights - but would not necessarily pull out of the market.
In Casper, where Great Lakes currently operates five daily flights, the regional says it will maintain at least three daily flights even if United Express enters the market.
In the 32 other markets, the United/Great Lakes relationship will remain unchanged. The agreement reached today extends the codeshare deal through April 2007. Great Lakes, also as part of today’s deal, has gained the right to enter into codeshare agreements with other US majors.
“This gives us some things we were looking for,” says Great Lakes president Doug Voss. “We have the freedom to do significantly more codesharing. Restrictions have been removed from our agreement with United.”
Adds a United spokesman: “The agreement with Great Lakes gives United the freedom to increase our competitiveness and provide an enhanced customer experience, while also allowing Great Lakes to better pursue its commercial interests.”
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
Seeeeeeeeeee yaaaaaaaaaa
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That''s good news, I would''ve hated to see Lakes lose out to Mesa (again I mean, them recently lost MSP EAS routes to them). We here at Wisconsin have lost enough to them already, first the mountain props route to their -8''s and now UAL has awarded them (and TSA!) RJ flying of which we were hoping to get a larger share of than we have so far. We have an MOU contingent on Mech., CSA, and ramp agent concessions, but for only 20 more airplanes. Oh this business.
Anyway, I still have a few buddies at Lakes and one of them told me there''s a pretty reliable rumor (I''ve heard from multiple sources) that they''re talking to Frontier about operating CRJ''s for them in the wake of Mesa''s CRJ switchover to United! (the Mesa UAL deal requires them to terminate flying for Frontier). That''s absolutely nuts! But possible I suppose, I''m sure there''s a few furloughed pilots who have the experience in jets to help Lakes get the program going. Problem is, with whose money? Call in the venture capitalists.
Meanwhile, Hell has started to freeze over.
Also, I think the towns Lakes will likely lose will be good ones for them, unfortunately
Casper [mentioned], Telluride, Sante Fe, Cheyenne, and probably Gillette).C-YA!
P.S. how many MEL defferrals have u flown with lately? ha ha just a little commuter humour
AirWisFO
Brbrpole2theOM
Newbie
- Oct 5, 2002
- 4
- 0
also, It is Mesaba that is taking over the Jamestown, Devils Lake route, don''t know for sure who is getting the Brookings (if they even keep service), Huron route.
DEVILS LAKE
New airline route added Northwest Airlines will provide round trip services between Devils Lake and Minneapolis starting Sept. 2. The Northwest Link will have twice-a-day flights between the two cities - one via Grand Forks and one via Jamestown. Northwest will provide the planes - SAAB 340 aircraft, which can carry 34 people, and Mesaba will provide flight crews. With 3,000 to 4,000 expected bookings from the National Guard resulted from the change, the Devils Lake Airport is hoping to get off federal subsidy, said airport manager Kenny Koehn. The Northwest Link will enable travelers to and from the city to purchase "throughfares" as part of the link to other parts of the country or the world. The Great Lakes Airlines had been providing flight service at the airport. - Devils Lake Journal
Also I think Amarillo would go to UX before Gillette. Making it Casper, Telluride, Cody, Santa Fe, and Amarillo. Purely speculation.
As far as the RJ''s go. Can''t wait to keep her on the Pole till just before I come up on JOULE (the OM for 17R of course)
DEVILS LAKE
New airline route added Northwest Airlines will provide round trip services between Devils Lake and Minneapolis starting Sept. 2. The Northwest Link will have twice-a-day flights between the two cities - one via Grand Forks and one via Jamestown. Northwest will provide the planes - SAAB 340 aircraft, which can carry 34 people, and Mesaba will provide flight crews. With 3,000 to 4,000 expected bookings from the National Guard resulted from the change, the Devils Lake Airport is hoping to get off federal subsidy, said airport manager Kenny Koehn. The Northwest Link will enable travelers to and from the city to purchase "throughfares" as part of the link to other parts of the country or the world. The Great Lakes Airlines had been providing flight service at the airport. - Devils Lake Journal
Also I think Amarillo would go to UX before Gillette. Making it Casper, Telluride, Cody, Santa Fe, and Amarillo. Purely speculation.
As far as the RJ''s go. Can''t wait to keep her on the Pole till just before I come up on JOULE (the OM for 17R of course)
Brbrpole2theOM
Newbie
- Oct 5, 2002
- 4
- 0
I don''t think we will lose CYS. I think that United will want to operate back into Cody instead. When we were operating as United Express when we got the route everything was full going up there. Problem was they were all flying free due to the Summer 2000 fiasco. This would probably be a route for the Dash or Brazilia since Skywest flys there allready for Delta.
As far as the jets, Frontier is projecting a need for no more than 10 jets (acording to a recent article) This would be enough I think to make it worth introducing a new aircraft to the fleet, however we would need to make it look very good on paper to go through with it and keep Rayethon happy. The last thing Rayethon would want us to do is to loose a bunch of money trying to get a new plane off the ground. If the numbers worked out, they would probably support us, but not necessarly help us.
The operation has been running very good. The numbers I have with me right now are for May:
Completion Factor 99.0%
On-Time Departures 85.6% (within 0 min)
On-Time Arrivals 76.0% (within 5 min)
Not many MEL''s either, hard to believe.
Seeeeeeeeee Yaaaaaaaaa
As far as the jets, Frontier is projecting a need for no more than 10 jets (acording to a recent article) This would be enough I think to make it worth introducing a new aircraft to the fleet, however we would need to make it look very good on paper to go through with it and keep Rayethon happy. The last thing Rayethon would want us to do is to loose a bunch of money trying to get a new plane off the ground. If the numbers worked out, they would probably support us, but not necessarly help us.
The operation has been running very good. The numbers I have with me right now are for May:
Completion Factor 99.0%
On-Time Departures 85.6% (within 0 min)
On-Time Arrivals 76.0% (within 5 min)
Not many MEL''s either, hard to believe.
Seeeeeeeeee Yaaaaaaaaa
whlinder
Veteran
Well there goes my conspiracy theory that United would dump Lakes and replace their service with one of the US Air express carriers...
Would Lakes really get RJs for Frontier? I thought that was the reason UA dumped them from the United Express ranks and down to the codeshare ranks. (Since IIRC UAX is supposed to be all jet in 2005 or something.)
Would Lakes really get RJs for Frontier? I thought that was the reason UA dumped them from the United Express ranks and down to the codeshare ranks. (Since IIRC UAX is supposed to be all jet in 2005 or something.)
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On 7/19/2003 1:08:40 PM Brbrpole2theOM wrote:
I don''t think we will lose CYS. I think that United will want to operate back into Cody instead. When we were operating as United Express when we got the route everything was full going up there. Problem was they were all flying free due to the Summer 2000 fiasco. This would probably be a route for the Dash or Brazilia since Skywest flys there allready for Delta.
As far as the jets, Frontier is projecting a need for no more than 10 jets (acording to a recent article) This would be enough I think to make it worth introducing a new aircraft to the fleet, however we would need to make it look very good on paper to go through with it and keep Rayethon happy. The last thing Rayethon would want us to do is to loose a bunch of money trying to get a new plane off the ground. If the numbers worked out, they would probably support us, but not necessarly help us.
The operation has been running very good. The numbers I have with me right now are for May:
Completion Factor 99.0%
On-Time Departures 85.6% (within 0 min)
On-Time Arrivals 76.0% (within 5 min)
Not many MEL''s either, hard to believe.
Seeeeeeeeee Yaaaaaaaaa
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Oh, yeah, you''re right about Cody, forgot about that. Cool overnight. I liked it anyway. Those are pretty good numbers too, I''ve heard that Mesa''s Frontier RJ completion factor is somewhere around 50%, but never heard it confirmed. Hey, do I know you? I''m Craig Beaty, was there Feb. 2000-April 2002.On 7/19/2003 1:08:40 PM Brbrpole2theOM wrote:
I don''t think we will lose CYS. I think that United will want to operate back into Cody instead. When we were operating as United Express when we got the route everything was full going up there. Problem was they were all flying free due to the Summer 2000 fiasco. This would probably be a route for the Dash or Brazilia since Skywest flys there allready for Delta.
As far as the jets, Frontier is projecting a need for no more than 10 jets (acording to a recent article) This would be enough I think to make it worth introducing a new aircraft to the fleet, however we would need to make it look very good on paper to go through with it and keep Rayethon happy. The last thing Rayethon would want us to do is to loose a bunch of money trying to get a new plane off the ground. If the numbers worked out, they would probably support us, but not necessarly help us.
The operation has been running very good. The numbers I have with me right now are for May:
Completion Factor 99.0%
On-Time Departures 85.6% (within 0 min)
On-Time Arrivals 76.0% (within 5 min)
Not many MEL''s either, hard to believe.
Seeeeeeeeee Yaaaaaaaaa
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On 7/19/2003 1:44:05 PM Brbrpole2theOM wrote:
also, It is Mesaba that is taking over the Jamestown, Devils Lake route, don''t know for sure who is getting the Brookings (if they even keep service), Huron route.
DEVILS LAKE
New airline route added Northwest Airlines will provide round trip services between Devils Lake and Minneapolis starting Sept. 2. The Northwest Link will have twice-a-day flights between the two cities - one via Grand Forks and one via Jamestown. Northwest will provide the planes - SAAB 340 aircraft, which can carry 34 people, and Mesaba will provide flight crews. With 3,000 to 4,000 expected bookings from the National Guard resulted from the change, the Devils Lake Airport is hoping to get off federal subsidy, said airport manager Kenny Koehn. The Northwest Link will enable travelers to and from the city to purchase "throughfares" as part of the link to other parts of the country or the world. The Great Lakes Airlines had been providing flight service at the airport. - Devils Lake Journal
Also I think Amarillo would go to UX before Gillette. Making it Casper, Telluride, Cody, Santa Fe, and Amarillo. Purely speculation.
As far as the RJ''s go. Can''t wait to keep her on the Pole till just before I come up on JOULE (the OM for 17R of course)
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On 7/19/2003 1:44:05 PM Brbrpole2theOM wrote:
also, It is Mesaba that is taking over the Jamestown, Devils Lake route, don''t know for sure who is getting the Brookings (if they even keep service), Huron route.
DEVILS LAKE
New airline route added Northwest Airlines will provide round trip services between Devils Lake and Minneapolis starting Sept. 2. The Northwest Link will have twice-a-day flights between the two cities - one via Grand Forks and one via Jamestown. Northwest will provide the planes - SAAB 340 aircraft, which can carry 34 people, and Mesaba will provide flight crews. With 3,000 to 4,000 expected bookings from the National Guard resulted from the change, the Devils Lake Airport is hoping to get off federal subsidy, said airport manager Kenny Koehn. The Northwest Link will enable travelers to and from the city to purchase "throughfares" as part of the link to other parts of the country or the world. The Great Lakes Airlines had been providing flight service at the airport. - Devils Lake Journal
Also I think Amarillo would go to UX before Gillette. Making it Casper, Telluride, Cody, Santa Fe, and Amarillo. Purely speculation.
As far as the RJ''s go. Can''t wait to keep her on the Pole till just before I come up on JOULE (the OM for 17R of course)
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Thanks again for the MSP info. I always was mistified they pulled why they pulled all UAX of AMA and gave it to Lakes exclusively, so that sounds possible also.
Hate to rain on your parade, but don''t you mean 250 to Joule? This is a jet we''re talking about! I''m training on the CRJ, coming over from the 328, in which 250 to the marker was doable but very tight and made me nervous, so I didn''t do it much. I asked a CRJ upgrade guy about it and he doesn''t think you can safely do it above 200. (Cowboy! ha ha)
Take care.
