HISTORY REATING

[MSPEZELHRCDG]

DL EXSPANSION AT JFK

WITH DL’S RECENT ANNOUNCEMENT OF EXSPANSION AT JFK MAKES YOU REALLY SCRATCH YOUR HEAD. HAVE THEY FINALLY REALIZED ATL IS NEVER GOING TO BE JFK. DO THE CURRENT BRAINS AT DL FINALLY HAVE IT RIGHT AND IF THEY DO, DO THEY HAVE SOME NEW YORK SALES & MARKETING PEOPLE TO FILL THOSE PLANES. (TOO MANY SENIOR SHEEP IN THOSE DEPTARTMENTS). IT WAS PA THAT ORIGINALLY HAD DOMESTIC FLIGHTS TO DOVETAIL THEIR INTERNATIONAL ONES AND WHILE PA COULD NOT OUT RUN THEIR PROBLEMS THE FOMULA WORKED. BEFORE CODE-SHARING AND CUSTOMER CONFUSION AS TO WHO’S PLANE YOU WERE ACTUALLY FLYING ON. WELL DL PURCHASED PA’s TRANS- ATLANTIC ROUTES AND THEY TOOK MANY OF THE ROUTES SOUTH (ATL OF COURSE). DL THOUGHT SEVERAL YEARS AGO ABOUT REBUILDING JFK AFTER MR. ATL ALLEN (THE CEO WHO HAD THEM FLYING TO IRELAND BECAUSE HE LIKED TO GO THERE) DEPARTED, BUT IT DID NOT HAPPEN. DL’S NEW FRENCH PARTNER SHOULD NOT BE UPSET AS THEY KNEW HOW GOOD JFK TRAFFIC WAS $$$. LEO KNEW ORD NOT JFK. TODAY WHERE IS LEO “MULLINâ€￾AROUND. PROBABLY THE BANK. SO NOW DL WILL RETURN TO JFK ONLY AFTER THEY SAW HOW MANY FOLKS WERE BUYING JET BLUE TICKETS TO JFK AND CREATING THEIR OWN CONNECTION AT THE WORST OAL TO OAL CONNECTING AIRPORT IN AMERICA. HOW MANY TIMES CAN DL SING THE SAME SONG BEFORE BEING VOTED OFF.? PRESIDENT BUSH YOU WANT FORGEIN INVESTMENT IN US AIRLINES, START BY LIMITED THE AIRLINES TIME IN BANKRUPCY TO 24 MONTHS. IF THEY CAN’T GET IT TOGETHER BY THEN LET THEM FOLD AND LET SOME NEW AMERICAN ENTREPRENEURSHIP BEGIN ! ASK HELEN BECKER, ROGER KING, AND
RAY NEIDL WHAT THEY REALLY THINK. WHILE THEY NEVER WORKED FOR AN AIRLINE THEY APPEAR TO KNOW IT BETTER THAN SOME OF OUR EXECUTIVES!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

If I did'nt know better, i would guess MSPEZELHRCDG was (at least) Frustrated with DL present Management.
(personally I like the TRUE statement that "ATL is No JFK")

For DL employees sake, I hope that DL never goes the way of PA !

While I watch DL fly from JFK(over the pond) to ANYPLACE that has a landing strip, I also notice that AA sits back(in JFK) and WATCHES DL, like a Male LION in the brush !!
(Just patiently ...W A T C H I N G )!!

NH/BB's

 

[Ch. 12]

If I did'nt know better, i would guess MSPEZELHRCDG was (at least) Frustrated with DL present Management.
(personally I like the TRUE statement that "ATL is No JFK")

For DL employees sake, I hope that DL never goes the way of PA !

While I watch DL fly from JFK(over the pond) to ANYPLACE that has a landing strip, I also notice that AA sits back(in JFK) and WATCHES DL, like a Male LION in the brush !!
(Just patiently ...W A T C H I N G )!!

NH/BB's

It's hard not to just watch when you don't have any more equipment to fly these routes.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

It's hard not to just watch when you don't have any more equipment to fly these routes.

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Well Ch. 12, if EVERYONE of these DL routes from JFK to "Bosnia or Montenegro" , or "god knows where" Brings in a positive ROI, then It's AA loss.
On the other hand if they "Don't", AA "keeps watching", and DL loses more Money.

Which is the LAST thing YOU can afford.

 

[Vikedog64]

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Well Ch. 12, if EVERYONE of these DL routes from JFK to "Bosnia or Montenegro" , or "god knows where" Brings in a positive ROI, then It's AA loss.
On the other hand if they "Don't", AA "keeps watching", and DL loses more Money.

Which is the LAST thing YOU can afford.

Just like you, Red Tail.. B)

 

[Ch. 12]

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Well Ch. 12, if EVERYONE of these DL routes from JFK to "Bosnia or Montenegro" , or "god knows where" Brings in a positive ROI, then It's AA loss.
On the other hand if they "Don't", AA "keeps watching", and DL loses more Money.

Which is the LAST thing YOU can afford.

Yes...B/C EVERY ONE of the markets must be profitable to make the system profitable, right? How about a positive ROI across all of them? I think that's a better way to look at it.

I took NHBB's comments to mean that AA is not guarding it's international presence with more flights b/c they actually had a choice in the matter. Having no equipment left to fly international kind of tells me that they have NO choice but to sit back. And right now isn't exactly the time to put in an order for 100 more 777's.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Just like you, Red Tail.. B)

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HUGE difference ..VIKE DOG.

NW is'nt expanding Internationally, to "EVERYWHERE" that has a "landing strip", while in BK-11, LIKE DL !!!!!!!!!!!


NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Yes...B/C EVERY ONE of the markets must be profitable to make the system profitable, right? How about a positive ROI across all of them? I think that's a better way to look at it.

I took NHBB's comments to mean that AA is not guarding it's international presence with more flights b/c they actually had a choice in the matter. Having no equipment left to fly international kind of tells me that they have NO choice but to sit back. And right now isn't exactly the time to put in an order for 100 more 777's.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ch. 12,

As I "opined" on the AA board, I predict AA will replace the A-300's(soon) with the A-330, freeing up a more Widebody aircraft.

Time will tell.

NH/BB's

 

[Ch. 12]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ch. 12,

As I "opined" on the AA board, I predict AA will replace the A-300's(soon) with the A-330, freeing up a more Widebody aircraft.

Time will tell.

NH/BB's

AMR currently has something like 35 orders for A300's and none for A330's while there are 1,048 outstanding orders for the 330. I'd say that it would be a while before AA could even pull in a 330 so back to my point...the CAN'T do anything (at the very least for a few years) so they MUST just watch from the sidelines. Unless you see the A330 coming from another carrier but I haven't read your "opining" on the AA board. Either way...it's a capital expenditure while DL is simply realigning existing assets. For AMR to expand internationally now would be MUCH more costly than DAL's expansion. Surely that also weighs on AA.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

AMR currently has something like 35 orders for A300's and none for A330's while there are 1,048 outstanding orders for the 330. I'd say that it would be a while before AA could even pull in a 330 so back to my point...the CAN'T do anything (at the very least for a few years) so they MUST just watch from the sidelines. Unless you see the A330 coming from another carrier but I haven't read your "opining" on the AA board. Either way...it's a capital expenditure while DL is simply realigning existing assets. For AMR to expand internationally now would be MUCH more costly than DAL's expansion. Surely that also weighs on AA.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well for starters Ch. 12, I can't tell you if AA has any 767's in the desert.
AND, Does DL have any 767's in the desert. ?

If whatever 767's DL has active, (minus any they "wiggled out of paying for"), than DL has made a commitment to keep these "birds" working

Since DL is losing their shirt flying them Domestically, then obviously they will use them to Europe, ON unproven($$$) routes.

As I said before, TIME will TELL.
"IF" DL is $$ Successful with every JFK Europe flight, than it will be AA's loss.

"IF" (example) 40% of them are $$$ DOGS, then that TAKES from the 60% profitable ones.

I know for a fact that DL/JFK-ATH is a winner, but what about Bucherest(SP?) etc. ??

Again, time will tell !

NH/BB's

 

[FWAAA]

AMR currently has something like 35 orders for A300's and none for A330's while there are 1,048 outstanding orders for the 330. I'd say that it would be a while before AA could even pull in a 330 so back to my point...the CAN'T do anything (at the very least for a few years) so they MUST just watch from the sidelines. Unless you see the A330 coming from another carrier but I haven't read your "opining" on the AA board. Either way...it's a capital expenditure while DL is simply realigning existing assets. For AMR to expand internationally now would be MUCH more costly than DAL's expansion. Surely that also weighs on AA.

Airbus' website discloses that there are 1,048 total orders for A330/340/350 and that 712 of those have been delivered. Further, 182 of the orders are for A350s, leaving a mere 154 unfilled orders for A330/340 models. What is that, about 12-18 months backlog? Anyway - it's not like AA is likely to order any A330s, so the waiting time for that model really doesn't matter.

Yes, DL is planning lots of new int'l flights. Dunno whether they'll print money with them, but AA's int'l additions have been impressive the past few years.

Since early 2002, AA has added new daily flights to DUB, SNN, MAN, NRT (JFK-NRT and LAX-NRT, dropped SEA-NRT), KIX, DEL, and in 3 weeks, PVG. I'm certain I've overlooked some others. Let's hope that DL's int'l expansion can be equally impressive and works out for DL.

NH/BBs may disagree, but we've previously discussed the natural replacement for the AA A300s and the non-ER 777s are perfect replacements, with just about the same MTOW as the A333s. NH/BBs says the 777 is too big for AA's Caribbean and Central American markets where the A300 currently flies, but the reality is that the 777 is about the same size as the A333.

The backlog for 777s isn't all that long - El Al ordered two 777-200ERs in December for 2007 delivery, so 777s are available with relatively short lead times.

767s in desert? AA only has a few 767-200s (4 or 5, IIRC) in the desert, but they were permanently retired at the end of 2003 and won't ever fly for AA again.

 

[runway4]

Didn't AA (and CO) sign exclusivitiy deals with Boeing back in the late 90s?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm thinking it was more like early-mid 90's, but that's really beside the point. Yes the did, Airbus raised a stink, and the deals were dropped. 'Course, neither has bought anything but Boeing since.

Jim

 

[FWAAA]

Yeah, AA signed the "exclusivity" deal with Boeing in November, 1996 when AA announced the tentative agreement with the APA (which the membership rejected) that would have permitted RJs. Wasn't until 1997 that AA reached agreement with the APA on the RJs and that's when AA actually placed the huge Boeing orders (as well as with Embraer and Bombardier).

IIRC, the EU made a stink about the deals when Boeing bought MD a year or so later, so Boeing and the airlines (AA, CO and DL) agreed to drop them. But as BoeingBoy pointed out, none of those three have ordered any Airbus in the interim.