Hub situation post merger (if)

[ograc]

When I look at CLT… I see incredible potential for O&D as time goes on. Most of the other metropolitan hub areas have already reached their population densities and/or are bound by geographic restrictions.

It’s not what the picture looks like now… it’s what the picture will look like a decade or so down the road! I’ll stick to my original statement… CLT will be a major player in the proposed merger with AA!

roabilly,

I have read all of the posted possible senarios regarding how this merger will affect the hubs. There are good supportive arguments presented by many. The disturbing thing to me is there is a consensus among all that there will be downsizing or elimination of hubs as a result of this proposed merger. How many and which hubs is speculation. One thing that is painfully obvious is this proposed merger will certainly result in huge job and membership loss. Which airline and union absorbs more of the company's "synergies" as a result of an approved merger remains to be seen. Kinda like playing Russian Roulette. I'm not convinced we should play at this time. How about a nice game of chess?
ograc

 

[A330US]

Very interesting replies to say the least,

I just dont think CLT will lose its INTL flights besides caribbean. CLT doesn't have OD, which is true, but yet again, with the cheap costs, and the actual space to grow, and combat ATL, it should work.

I think CLT should gain additional frequencies internationally, or possibly stay where its at when it comes to EU flights. I think the region needs a middle east flight, Only UA and DL have a flight to DXB, and majority
of the south asian community, as well as the other asian communities, travel through DXB to get to their final destinations. This is something that the new AA US needs to start, regardless of which hub, but a DXB flight should be a priority.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Likewise with PHX. It will be a western hub.

With DFW/TUL/LAX, why would one need a third-world backwater like PHX whose claim to "fame" consists of through flights with very little O&D traffic? I seem to recall reading tempe wishful thinking that, at most, PHX enjoys a 23% O&D traffic, with all the rest simply "connecting", a very expensive way to provide service. I also read (company propaganda) that PIT had a 28% O&D traffic situation when they were shuttered.

While downsizing seems inevitable, I think PHX will remain, even as small as it will become.

 

[ChockJockey]

roabilly,

I have read all of the posted possible senarios regarding how this merger will affect the hubs. There are good supportive arguments presented by many. The disturbing thing to me is there is a consensus among all that there will be downsizing or elimination of hubs as a result of this proposed merger. How many and which hubs is speculation. One thing that is painfully obvious is this proposed merger will certainly result in huge job and membership loss. Which airline and union absorbs more of the company's "synergies" as a result of an approved merger remains to be seen. Kinda like playing Russian Roulette. I'm not convinced we should play at this time. How about a nice game of chess?
ograc

What about the otherwise certain job eliminations at AA? It sounds to me like a lot of the AA people don't look forward to getting habitually eviscerated by AA management. Working under the same crappy business plan being executed by the same idiots only at lower pay and worse treatment. If there's a time when the industry needs real labor solidarity, it's now. If we're as dedicated to protecting the rights we have under organized labor as we claim to be, then we should not sit by and watch as tens of thousands are relieved of those rights and their pockets get a legally-protected picking. The wolf is at their door, and the next time the poop hits the Dyson and lil' US Airways trips into BK he will be at ours.

Either way there will be job losses. If we must make those sacrifices, they should be so that we all finally get the opportunity to become the kind of airline we always lament not being. I'm tired of people going on and on about how they're been wronged and everything sucks. I'm looking forward to a new start with a new airline. If down the road the cost of that risk is me getting the boot then I can accept that.

 

[ograc]

What about the otherwise certain job eliminations at AA? It sounds to me like a lot of the AA people don't look forward to getting habitually eviscerated by AA management. Working under the same crappy business plan being executed by the same idiots only at lower pay and worse treatment. If there's a time when the industry needs real labor solidarity, it's now. If we're as dedicated to protecting the rights we have under organized labor as we claim to be, then we should not sit by and watch as tens of thousands are relieved of those rights and their pockets get a legally-protected picking. The wolf is at their door, and the next time the poop hits the Dyson and lil' US Airways trips into BK he will be at ours.

Either way there will be job losses. If we must make those sacrifices, they should be so that we all finally get the opportunity to become the kind of airline we always lament not being. I'm tired of people going on and on about how they're been wronged and everything sucks. I'm looking forward to a new start with a new airline. If down the road the cost of that risk is me getting the boot then I can accept that.

ChockJockey,

Your willingness to throw yourself on the grenade to save others is admirable. Unfortunately, the reality is, this is not shared in the industry or our society in general. IMO... the responsibilty of a union, in our case, the IAM representing the Fleet Service at US, is to look out for the best interests' of the membership they represent. IMO... I would hope this is the position the ND Team with the IAM DL 141 would take. Is it fair to ask members at US to possibly sacrifice their careers so that others on the AA side may save theirs? This is the difficult question that needs to be addressed by the IAM. This merger proposal, as I see it, is typical playing one member against another (ie. TWU vs. IAM). It is the game plan by which US higher ups play. Even if the proposed merger agreement goes through, we are left with a membership deeply divided and bitter toward one another. With that being said and looking forward, from both sides, this merger proposal IMO.... is not in the best interest of any of the said Fleet Service. You can play out all possible senarios but in the end no one wins (TWU or IAM represented). I do believe, if this merger agreement goes through the only potential winners are DP and the involved shareholders and creditors. The best option is not to play as I see it. How about a nice game of chess?

ograc
ograc

 

[ChockJockey]

Is it fair to ask members at US to possibly sacrifice their careers so that others on the AA side may save theirs?

You are implying that the members are going to be given a choice about it. I believe in saving as many jobs as possible, but I don't agree that that should be so at any cost no matter what.

This merger proposal, as I see it, is typical playing one member against another (ie. TWU vs. IAM). It is the game plan by which US higher ups play.

How exactly are they being played against each other?

Even if the proposed merger agreement goes through, we are left with a membership deeply divided and bitter toward one another. With that being said and looking forward, from both sides, this merger proposal IMO.... is not in the best interest of any of the said Fleet Service.

Who's going to be bitter and divided, and about what? Is scaremongering a subject taught in one of those union workshops?

You can play out all possible senarios but in the end no one wins (TWU or IAM represented). I do believe, if this merger agreement goes through the only potential winners are DP and the involved shareholders and creditors. The best option is not to play as I see it. How about a nice game of chess?

What is the best option? Stick your head in the sand and wait another 2-3 years for a mediocre contract while more and more stations get outsourced and our competitors squeeze in around us?

 

[ograc]

You are implying that the members are going to be given a choice about it. I believe in saving as many jobs as possible, but I don't agree that that should be so at any cost no matter what.


How exactly are they being played against each other?


Who's going to be bitter and divided, and about what? Is scaremongering a subject taught in one of those union workshops?


What is the best option? Stick your head in the sand and wait another 2-3 years for a mediocre contract while more and more stations get outsourced and our competitors squeeze in around us?

You are correct. DP's plan may not give us any choice. That's fair right? DP's proposal doesn't give a rat's arse about what you think if you are from the US side.

TWU members fault us (IAM members) for being reluctant to buy into the proposal. Even though no details have been released, at least on the US side, where the job loss will be. There is certain to be some "synergies". If there is job loss on the US side it will be the TWU represented members at AA's fault for endorsing the proposed merger. It's not scaremongering IMO... it's how the affected members on both sides will react. We've seen it before.

The mere proposal has already caused division. What do you expect when the actual "synergies" are implemented?

I'm not going to endorse a "scorch the earth" approach just because we are frustrated with progress in negotiations. DP has stated we do not need to merge at this time did he not? I support patience. We do not know all the details of the proposal at this time. Let's not jump from the frying pan into the fire because of a lack of patience. We need time to choose what the best option will be for the members at US Fleet. If in fact, we are given a choice, in our careers. Worst case senario our choice has been effectively taken from us with this proposal. And the enemy is who?

ograc

ograc

 

[BoeingBoy]

With DFW/TUL/LAX, why would one need a third-world backwater like PHX whose claim to "fame" consists of through flights with very little O&D traffic? I seem to recall reading tempe wishful thinking that, at most, PHX enjoys a 23% O&D traffic, with all the rest simply "connecting", a very expensive way to provide service. I also read (company propaganda) that PIT had a 28% O&D traffic situation when they were shuttered.

While downsizing seems inevitable, I think PHX will remain, even as small as it will become.

I'll give you till tomorrow to figure out how clueless that post is...

Jim

 

[dca319]

I'll give you till tomorrow to figure out how clueless that post is...

Jim

Please don't make him work so hard.

 

[Kev3188]

Nice to see you back!

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Do you think for a moment the TWU and IAM haven't been in contact? Suppose the IAM gets maintenance and the TWU gets fleet service? These unions are basically large corporations themselves,they split the take and both can continue to collect dues from the membership.

Betcha' it has already been decided.

 

[wings396]

Jfk, you are on the money with this one....

 

[cltrat]

Do you think for a moment the TWU and IAM haven't been in contact? Suppose the IAM gets maintenance and the TWU gets fleet service? These unions are basically large corporations themselves,they split the take and both can continue to collect dues from the membership.

Betcha' it has already been decided.

isn't that quite an uneven trade numbers wise with the number of AA mtc well exceeding the number of US fleet?

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Flip it around if you'd prefer,if they do actually close the AFW base the disparity may diminish.
Never mind the numerous stations AA wants to outsource altogether.

 

[cltrat]

Flip it around if you'd prefer,if they do actually close the AFW base the disparity may diminish.
Never mind the numerous stations AA wants to outsource altogether.

one thing is certain JFK, we are all just pawns in a multi million dollar game of chess, ultimately what any of us think or want will matter very much.