I Don't Believe I Did It But......

[KCFlyer]

Art...I HAVE flown them on a "half transcon" from MCI-OAK. I bought my lunch at the airport, but they served a snack pack with a drink service, then came around for a second drink service about an hour later. I was heading to a conference in San Francisco...my coworker would not be caught dead on a Southwest flight...so she flew AA. We both left at 9:00 a.m. I got to my hotel in downtown San Francisco (St Francis) by noon, Pacific time. I had a nice lunch, stolled around Union Square, and headed to the bar to watch the super bowl pregame show. She got in at 5:30 that afternoon.

Going home was a bit better...she left the hotel at 6:30a.m. to catch her return flight. I waited til about 9:30 to catch my 11:30 flight at OAK. I was on the ground in KC by 5:30...she didn't get home until 8. She also didn't get food. Bottom line, it's really no different, if not a little better, than coach service on any other airline.

 

[vantheman63]

When I first started my business, I flew them transcon...quite a bit. PVD-MDW-OAK/SMF....stuff like that. I think I did LAS-PVD and PHX-PVD a few times too. Back in those days, I was able to buy $79 each way transcon tix....and that was all I had in terms of money. LOL

My chief reason I would not likely chose them for transcon now is "space." That's pretty much it. Otherwise, from a service stand point, and with "Business Select," I would.

The product was enhanced SIGNIFICANTLY...and WN is my second airline of choice, after CO. On short haul, I'm a WN guy....

Still baffles me that someone "wouldn't be caught dead" on a WN bus.

 

[does this plane go to paris]

Van, When I first moved to LAS, there was a HUGE push by by HP and WN for marketshare between PHX and LAS. We're talking 1984. I came from the east coast and as a young lad, had only flown on either DL or EA. If there were tv ad's, it only was to show off the service, never the price.

So when I got to LAS, I saw all of these funny ad's between HP and WN to get them to fly. The first tv ad's that started were from HP and it showed all of these so called business people at the airport and since they were flying on the cattle car airline, they didn't want their friends and family to know that they were using this no frill airline and they put on paper sacks over their heads to hide. The announcer then came over and said that there was a new airline in town and that you didn't have to be embarrassed because they had assigned seats, a first class and a low fare a la America West.

The second set of ad's showed a business man flying back and forth on WN and he was using the paper sack and after showing all of the convient time's and the amount of the fare, the business man, talking throuh the sack said that this was good enough for him. He then took off the sack and a bund of money flowed into the sack. The businessman said that saving money and having a convient was good enough for him. Of course it was Herb.

Art, I'm glad you took the Never slogan off and tried WN. I've been usinng them for short haul's between LAS and So. Cal for year's. My business partner's wife might never be caught on WN but he will and love them. I'm a tall guy and swore that anything over 90 minutes was too long on WN. I had to be in PIT a few months back and no one else's scheduled matched my appointment's and I was "forced" to try WN but I used Business Select. I got the seat over the wing that doesn't have the seat in front and got work done. I've now done it 3 more time's and have enjoyed it. There really is no food service to speak of on other carrier's and when there is a nibble, it's nothing to write home about.

 

[Art at ISP]

OK, as Paul Harvey says, now for the rest of the story........

My meeting Wednesday morning ended early after an early lunch. I refilled the Escape Hybrid they rented me (interesting that the hybrid system on the Ford is not as good as the Toyota/Lexus system because if the AC is on the engine never shuts off), and headed back to MCO.

I had checked in on line, although unable to print the boarding pass. This time my number was A01. There were two lines, both pretty long, so I asked for a kiosk, and was told I'd have to wait on a line to make changes (I was trying to get the 3:45 to ISP rather than the 6:10 I was on). That's the first problem I encountered....they should either enable kiosks to do changes, OR have a separate line for Business Select. I wound up waiting 45 minutes to find out the 3:45 was cancelled (monitor did NOT reflect this), so in essence I wasted 45 minutes on line to get a boarding pass. Sorry that doesn't work for me.

As it turned out that was basically the worst of it. Through security (they got rid of the 2 hour rule at MCO), and used the new "expert" lane! Off to the 100 gates--Many flights were showing delays, especially B6 to NY, and a few WN's due to weather, but ISP showed right on time.

A late flight necessitated a gate change, so I made my way to the new gate and settled in with a magazine and a frozen yogurt, which promptly gave me some brain freeze. As the hours passed, I did some people watching and noticed that in the 100-110 gate area, there were 99.9% non business travelers--I counted less than 10 in the entire terminal (I considered dress and briefcase/laptop bag as indicators). I also watched someone yelling at a Jet Blue agent about not making a gate change announcement as he was the last to board his flight (funny I heard the announcement like 10 times). PA's go through that entire wing, so at gate 108 you hear the announcements for gate 127 etc.

There was weather in the Mid Atlantic and Northeast, so I was prepared for any eventuality. I asked the agent at the CS counter where the inbound was coming from and he said PHL, but commented it was on time! It actually arrived early, which gave them extra time to clean and prepare.

There were no less than 6 wheel chairs on this leg so after the gate agent made the announcement explaining the new boarding procedures he paged 2 passengers to the podium-myself and one other gentleman. He told us quietly that although they usually board the preboards first, due to the high number of wheelchairs, there were only 2 of us in Business Select so he was going to board us first--he assumed (correctly) that we would want the exit rows. Impressive--thinking ahead of the curve. We stayed close, and eventually he just gave us a nod, and we boarded ahead of the chairs. We told the FA's that we were the business guys, and the first one said "I guess you know where the exit rows are and are willing to help".

Found my way to 11A, where the FA was standing, stored the bags and settled down. Again, this was a FULL flight, probably due to the prior cancellation, but boarding was semi organized, and again, there was no issue with overhead space even though this was a -300 and the bins are smaller necessitating rollaboards to go in sideways.

We pushed back just about on the money, and started BOTH engines (I guess they don't do one engine taxi), and before you know it we were in the air. The FA's made the first pass taking drink orders (had the BS coupon, so had a scotch). Very well organized and efficiently done..plenty of time for two or three rounds for those who wanted it, and multiple passes to clear the cabin.

You could see all the bad weather to the west of the aircraft as we descended into ISP, but we made it in about 10-15 minutes before a pretty heavy storm found the airport (I was already in my car). I did notice that they get the gear down early, and flaps down pretty late in the approach--I guess their procedures are a little different. It also appeared they use a lower flap setting on approach-meaning slightly higher approach speeds--for the WN pilots out there--do you land flap 20-25????

I got off the airplane and walked out to the check in area to see if any of my US friends were still there, and sure enough the ladies who I missed the most from the late shift were in the back room at the counter. One saw me and yelled "where the heck have you been??"
We had a nice chat catching up, and the confirmed what I had heard earlier in the day that Spirit is gone from ISP end of month.

Got to the car, paid the parking and it started raining just as I left the airport. I discovered after entering the LIE that it was closed between ISP and my house, so I got off onto the service road when I could and took the alternate (Motor Parkway).

Bottom line, it was okay, but I still prefer assigned seats. I think the true test will be on a regular ticket without Business Select, but based on this trip I MIGHT try them again if circumstances permit.

At least they meet the expectations they set for themselves, and offer value.

 

[KCFlyer]

At least they meet the expectations they set for themselves, and offer value.

Are you saying that the other airlines set coach class expectations HIGHER than Southwest? About the only one I see is UAL's econ plus. Otherwise, the coach class (and this is the operative word - most passengers business or leisure are in coach) service on most other airlines is less than that provided on Southwest.

On a side note - I have attended conferences in Orlando - just this year as a matter of fact. I flew on Midwest - if any "business passengers" are going to fly somewhere out of KC, you'd think that Midwest would be their choice - however both flights may have had only a handful of business type passengers. After all - Orlando is primarily a leisure destination. It doesn't matter if you were on US, CO, AA, or DL, any flight into and out of Orlando is going to have far fewer "business type" passengers. Next time, if comparing the number of "business type" passengers is the goal, give them a try from ISP to Chicago.

 

[mrman]

Art,

A quick hint, in the future if you are trying to change flight, print your BP clear security and get standby or flight change at gate. Typically small line if any.

 

[Tanker]

We pushed back just about on the money, and started BOTH engines (I guess they don't do one engine taxi),
I did notice that they get the gear down early, and flaps down pretty late in the approach--I guess their procedures are a little different. It also appeared they use a lower flap setting on approach-meaning slightly higher approach speeds--for the WN pilots out there--do you land flap 20-25????

At SWA we always start both engines at the gate. If it looks like the taxi for takeoff is going to be longer than 15 minutes we can shut down an engine and do the single engine taxi. As for flap settings on landing it will either be flaps 30 (which will be most of the time) or flaps 40. We never use flaps 25 for landing.

 

[JS]

Art, I don't understand why you would want assigned seating when you got the exact seat you wanted on both flights.

 

[Art at ISP]

JS,

I never said it was rational, I said it was my preference.

That said, the odds of getting the seat I want if I am not on a Business Select ticket are dramatically lower....even with an A pass.

 

[DLtoWN]

Art,

The worst thing SWA could ever do is provide assigned seats. It would KILL the 25 minute turn.

I was traveling on Delta recently and was sitting in a gate waiting on a delayed flight, when I noticed the gate agent at the next gate making his 4th "Final Boarding" announcement. There were still about 5 or 6 people sitting around, talking on the phone etc, who "didn't have to board right now, I have a seat assignment so they won't leave without me".

With SWA, the plane comes in, you get on, and leave. What a simple and effective concept. SWA gets an extra flight or two PER DAY out of their aircraft by keeping them in the air, where they are making money.

Also, many people cry that SWA will be in the same boat as the other airlines when their fuel hedges run out. This is so wrong! SWA is making money, and continually buying more fuel hedges all the time. So they won't run out in 3 years, or 5 years, or ever because they can raise prices any time they want to cover more hedges and still have the lowest fares and the lowest costs in the industry.

Just my observations.

 

[KCFlyer]

JS,

I never said it was rational, I said it was my preference.

That said, the odds of getting the seat I want if I am not on a Business Select ticket are dramatically lower....even with an A pass.

Art - I have to speak as predominantly a coach passenger. Sure, I know that "legacy" airlines will block the exit rows for their "preferred passengers"...that's 6 seats out of 150 on a typical narrowbody plane. If you are the 7th preferred, you're not getting the exit row. FWIW - I have gotten the exit row many times on a 'regular' A card. I've also seen a person in the C group get an aisle seat...it was next to me and my daughter. And - with the typical 3x3 seating configuration on most airlines, fully 1/3 of the passengers are going to get assigned a center seat.

 

[jimntx]

And - with the typical 3x3 seating configuration on most airlines, fully 1/3 of the passengers are going to get assigned a center seat.

KC, that assumes that the a/c is full every time--which ain't happening lately. At least at AA. I never thought I would see the day where a flight to or from LAX in the summertime would have empty seats.

Besides, most of our domestic a/c are MD80s with 2-3 seating. Redo your math, young man. You are not going out to play until you get this right.

 

[KCFlyer]

KC, that assumes that the a/c is full every time--which ain't happening lately. At least at AA. I never thought I would see the day where a flight to or from LAX in the summertime would have empty seats.

Besides, most of our domestic a/c are MD80s with 2-3 seating. Redo your math, young man. You are not going out to play until you get this right.

Even if they go out with 7 people (6 on an AA MD-80) somebody isn't going to get the exit row (unless they don't want to recline). That's my point...In response to Art, the A boarding group on Southwest would not be drastically different from his business select ticket except that the exit rows are likely taken. Just pointing out that in the coach cabin, even though exit rows are held back for elites, if there are more than 6 or 7, somebody's not going to get the "better" seating.

 

[SKY HIGH]

Just pointing out that in the coach cabin, even though exit rows are held back for elites, if there are more than 6 or 7, somebody's not going to get the "better" seating.

.........that's cuz MOST OF THEM ARE UP FRONT, IN "FIRST CLASS". 16 OF THEM!

 

[KCFlyer]

.........that's cuz MOST OF THEM ARE UP FRONT, IN "FIRST CLASS". 16 OF THEM!

Too bad your reading skills are lacking Sky...I said - from a coach class perspective. But you do bring up a good point...what if there are 17 elites on a flight? Doe's one get to ride the cockpit jumpseat?

BTW...you might want to be aware of United...THEY have big front seats too...and they've got a few rows with far more legroom that US will ever put in coach in the back cabin. They're pretty nice seats...what do you tell your elites in coach that get the same seat that a "kettle" gets? On UAL, they'd at least get a few more inches of legroom. Heck...on Southwest they get more legroom that coach passengers on US.