Independence Air

AnalyzeThis

Member
May 8, 2003
37
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Just curious if anyone knows how things are progressing at Flyi?
Seems like they have some great ideas and the fares are excellent.
I see their operation runs fairly well, at least by the flifo, how are
their loads? Service?

I love how simple they do things, but with a unique style. I hope they
have a shot at surviving and thriving!

Thanks for any information you may provide.

Flyi.com :up:
 
AnalyzeThis said:

I see their operation runs fairly well, at least by the flifo,

Flyi.com :up:

If you're looking at the FLIFO on their site, be aware that they regularly change what appears to be the scheduled time. Then when you look at the actual flight time the flight "looks" on time.

I don't think they do this to be deceptive, but instead I think that when they have new estimated times they change the schedule in FLIFO. But if often makes a casual look at flight information seem like more flights are on time that actually were.
 
I flew them last week for the first time. Two flights - both departed right on time. Both arrived ten minutes early and in both cases the pilot make sure to point that fact out. Seems like its something they're instructed to do.

Lots of nice little touches. Enthusiastic employees. Ticket agents and Gate agents were nice, attentive and helpful. Prior to departure from the gate, the pilot stepped out of the cockpit, introduced himself and his co-pilot as well as the F/A and thanked the pax for flying Independence. The celebrity pre-recorded safety announcements were somewhat amusing, though I would imagine that they will wear thin for frequent passengers unless they are updated regularly. The beverage/snack service was fine. The seats were surprisingly comfortable for a CRJ, but there's still no comparison with a full-sized jet (especially with the windows down by your waist). The flights were short so it wasn't really a big thing.

The fare was remarkably low. It actually seemed too low to me - less than $100 r/t with just a five day advance purchase. I can't imagine how they're making money at this rate, even if the flights are full. Speaking of which, my first flight had about 35 pax. The second had about 40.

All in all, a good experience. I'm sure I'll fly them again at some point. We'll see how they do over time.
 
I haven't flown DH yet but the service sounds superior to any RJ run by the LCCs. This, the fares and frequent schedules should give them a competitive advantage to fill some planes (provided there is sufficient demand out of IAD). However, I have heard (from a very reliable source) that DH's LF is less than what their management expected and they are taking steps to rectify it.
 
Thanks for information. I hope to fly them in September if all goes as planned.
I can say, make it or not, the other airlines need to understand DH has the concept that the public is looking for, simple product and a "fair" price.

I wish them well and will support them whenever I can.

Thanks again for all the feedback, nice to see a positive conversation.

Take care all.
 
AnalyzeThis said:
I can say, make it or not, the other airlines need to understand DH has the concept that the public is looking for, simple product and a "fair" price.
Cheap price does not necessarily mean "fair" price. They are pricing at a very low level on a very high cost a/c. I'm not so sure it's a sustainable plan.

An interesting development on the airline prices is Greyhound. Seems they are losing much business b/c the airfare rivals bus fares. Hmmmm....would I like to pay $50 for 2 days on a bus from DC to Chicago or would I rather pay the same to fly the same route in 2 hours? The funny thing is that it is much cheaper to drive a bus on that route than fly a plane and Greyhound can't make money at those rates. You draw the conclusion from there...
 
Ch. 12 said:
Cheap price does not necessarily mean "fair" price. They are pricing at a very low level on a very high cost a/c. I'm not so sure it's a sustainable plan.
Absolutely! IAir will need to seriously increase it's load factors in order to keep it's high-cost RJs running at low fares, plus have enough capital to take delivery on its new A319s. I understand the LFs on I Air are reportedly between 20-40% on some routes. Not completely sure of the accuracy of that, but at this point it sounds pretty bad.... hope their pockets are deep!
 
MHT had a rough start for the first few days with some flights going out with passengers in the single digits. However, in the past few days MHT has been consitently been over 30 passengers per flight with many over 40 passengers.
 
For LCC RJ's, I would say that they need >45 on every plane. The fixed costs are spready over only 1/3 of the seats on a normal LCC and the other LCC's have loads in the upper 80% range for their systems. They are profitable (JBLU/LUV) but not THAT profitable at 115+ passengers per flight. The per seat operating cost is not nearly as significant as the fixed costs so...IAir had better find a way to get more passengers. I think nobody is taking them seriously b/c they know that you can only burn cash for so long. And I'm sure that IAir is burning the cash quite nicely.
 
Some of their scheduling has me scratching my head. For instance, they are going to run 6 flights/day between IAH and SWF (Newburgh, NY.) I can't see there being nearly enough pax to support that. Even the people running the airport at SWF tried to get them to reduce the schedule to around 4 per day. It's planning like this that guarantees low load factors.
 
ngneer said:
Some of their scheduling has me scratching my head. For instance, they are going to run 6 flights/day between IAH and SWF (Newburgh, NY.) I can't see there being nearly enough pax to support that. Even the people running the airport at SWF tried to get them to reduce the schedule to around 4 per day. It's planning like this that guarantees low load factors.
I think you meant IAD on that route to SWF. Another notable liability... 6 daily RT IAD-HSV starting in 01OCT04.... now pulling up at $78/pp/rt. Appears to be yet another cash drainer to add to their already long list.
 
The loads have increased daily out of EWR. They run Hourly service to IAD on the half hour and loads are good. Looks like a lot of connections to CAE & RDU. One point I have noticed, is that durring an Irregular Operation, the C/S Personnel seem to have a very hard time handling the situation. The Experience Level and the inablility to reroute to another carrier seems to cause most of there problems.
 
Well, they are trying to run a rolling RJ hub... This requires two things: 1. a market with a lot of O&D pax (Washington has that) and 2. a lot of frequency (IAir does that). They seem to have a large number of flights in every market, in order to increase utilization and make the rolling hub work without long connections.

The question is not can IAD-SWF support 6 flights per day, the question is can SMF-IAD+all connect points support 6 flights per day. Given that 6 flights = 300 seats, I say maybe. Also, I think the system as it is now is a fairly marginal system. When the A319's come on line and IAir can offer connections to Florida and California, the viability of the "feeder" network they have currently increases dramatically... I am not sure how many people are flying from SWF to SAV, but I am sure there is a large market from SWF to Florida and California which can be tapped into...
 
Funguy-

I agree with you in the sense of a rolling hub but not a rolling RJ hub. RJ's cannot sustain connecting traffic and the question should remain...can IAD-SWF maintain six flights/day. IAir must not only have significant loads (all but 5 seats on EVERY flight) but must also have a remarkable base of local traffic (I wouldn't want more than a couple of connecting passengers on each flight) to cover their costs. WN flies planes nearly 3x the size of IAir's and they try to force pax to local routings b/c they know how little revenue a connecting pax brings in compared to the cost. On the tiny planes, you cannot have connections and sustain an operation. RJs are successful in hub to small market instances but not large market to hub to another large market. The fixed costs are doubled and the revenue cut in half for connections. Terrible situation on an RJ.