Is it worth it?

[eolesen]

Some of you unionistas spend almost as much time arguing about the need and good for a union as the die-hard Obama supporters do right now about how all that hope and change are working out... The rest of us see it for what it is. A fraud and a sham.

Go talk to the pilots at JetBlue and ask why they're not certifying a union. The ones I've spoken to all say that as bad as things may be without union protection, they still have more of a say over the quality of their worklife without a union than they did with ALPA and APA.

 

[WoRkInG]

I actually worked with the United guy. His feelings were he would avaoid another union if possible. I also worked with AA and US Air guys. (I made the mistake of working at TIMCO in GSO for a short while.)

There were issues with the RIF call, theres no doubt.

I only mention 9-11 to show the FACT that unionized carriers cut man power way before Delta did. A shake up was coming for our industry, 9-11 was just the spark.

I am willing to have a discusion with anyone, why would I not want to meet you, is there a threat in there somewhere? My time will come? What is that supposed to mean?

To give youself credit for me not wanting a union is awfully big headed of you.

Your missing the point mtc. It's not about union and non-union, it is about the law of the land and that is contracts. Well on to the next....

 

[DAL Mech]

You just accept the above in some cavalier fashion???

That seniority issue could have meant being out of work for years?

So I just walk away, saying oh well, while some new hire stays because they like him better, or it is more convenient that way for the local Management?

Unreal.

Whatever dude, I'm done trying to explain to you hardliners why I feel about unions the way I do.


Want a union at Delta? Start up a drive, see how many feel the way I do. See how warmly you are greeted at the gates with your flyers.

 

[tech2101]

Whatever dude, I'm done trying to explain to you hardliners why I feel about unions the way I do.

I have not seen you do that yet. (You would know a hardliner if you met one, that is not me)

Want a union at Delta? Start up a drive, see how many feel the way I do. See how warmly you are greeted at the gates with your flyers.

I am quite sure the Managers would not allow that to happen. Nor would the guys who were not laid off in seniority order...

BTW, I do not care if Delta goes union or not.

My career ended with NWA when we went on strike. I prepared long before I was escorted off the property.

I hope you are one of the ones Delta sees fit to keep when the axe falls on the next layoff round.

Enjoy your date with your new CEO...

 

[WoRkInG]

Some of you unionistas spend almost as much time arguing about the need and good for a union as the die-hard Obama supporters do right now about how all that hope and change are working out... The rest of us see it for what it is. A fraud and a sham.

Go talk to the pilots at JetBlue and ask why they're not certifying a union. The ones I've spoken to all say that as bad as things may be without union protection, they still have more of a say over the quality of their worklife without a union than they did with ALPA and APA.

<_< who are you? Since you want to put your two cents in I guess I got to break it down to you. First off I am not for or against a union. I deal with logic and the way America truly works and not by emotion or "that's the way it is" because Bush, Obama, Pelosi, Cheney, whom ever you can think of from D.C. don't think that way. You are one of millions who go back and forth about REP or Dem. Blame games and figure pointing. I don't like neither party because I know for a fact they do not hold the power like you might think. When the last time a "President" was voting in by the people in a company? ZERO! Just like a company, our country is constructed the same. Both Reps and Dems have contracts that they have to make good on for special interest in which are foriegn investors. Follow the money and don't stop. You will see what I am talking about "eolesen". Since birth someone is making money off you. We as a people have falling deep into "public preception". That's why they are polices and not laws anymore because of "contract protection" from guilt. People not understanding the difference in "legal" and "lawful". You should be focusing on where in the world Bush and Obama get the money to okay stim checks and packages and wars then what Obama's followers are doing. We the people pay the loan back, but who okay's the money for these actions taken by the president? Trust me, not congress. Your ignorance will keep you in bondage. Remember owe no man on earth. I speak on union vs. non-union because us as Americans working is the only way things keep running the way it is. Right to keep a job?No. Respect and understanding about the way our nation is truly set up? Yes. Oh yeah JetBlue pilots? Why you guys don't consult with leading industry pay workers or leading industry company's with union backing about unions. You ask a non-union workforce about having a union. What can they tell you. They admitted things are bad without union protection. Do you honestly believe them not having a contract (a recognized/legal voice) is going to help them? No. Ask a Enron employee. They tried to get there money, but no beans. I advise you to end your all forum memberships you have and go to ebay and see how much a vintage mustang cost.

 

[WoRkInG]

You just accept the above in some cavalier fashion???

That seniority issue could have meant being out of work for years?

So I just walk away, saying oh well, while some new hire stays because they like him better, or it is more convenient that way for the local Management?

Unreal.

Don't stress on what he speaks, he's young....minded.

 

[Kev3188]

The communication about our options that were available was seriously lacking. Many took the RIF and didnt really have to, they could have slid into other positions. Taking a lower level position, it was explained the pay cut would be immediate, that wasn't the case. There were seniority issues with the call back as well. Some of it had to do with the call back preference sheet that we all had to fill out(but I'm sure it was all Delta just screwing us ). Machinists didn't take any layoffs, so there were some low time guys there. I believe high cost cities kept lower time guys, operationally there wouldn't be much choice.



A bunch of little stuff that could have been done better. :down: Do I believe it was done maliciously? No.(Im sure that statement will garner some insults) I believe it was unfamiliar ground for the management.

Thank you for filling me in.

Obviously, you know that these are all issues that a CBA eliminates, so I won't go there.

That said, now that DL is "familiar" with RIF's, are these problems solved? Are there now clearer policies in place (I mean for Tech Ops; I know there isn't for ACS) to prevent a recurrence of these issues?

By the way Kev, the poll is 2:1 for. Told ya.

Color me pleasantly surprised.

Go talk to the pilots at JetBlue and ask why they're not certifying a union.

Or ask all the ones that have organized why they felt the need to do so...

Want a union at Delta? Start up a drive, see how many feel the way I do. See how warmly you are greeted at the gates with your flyers.

... Or see how quickly management calls the police (what are they afraid of, anyway?!)...

 

[DAL Mech]

<_< who are you? Since you want to put your two cents in I guess I got to break it down to you. First off I am not for or against a union. I deal with logic and the way America truly works and not by emotion or "that's the way it is" because Bush, Obama, Pelosi, Cheney, whom ever you can think of from D.C. don't think that way. You are one of millions who go back and forth about REP or Dem. Blame games and figure pointing. I don't like neither party because I know for a fact they do not hold the power like you might think. When the last time a "President" was voting in by the people in a company? ZERO! Just like a company, our country is constructed the same. Both Reps and Dems have contracts that they have to make good on for special interest in which are foriegn investors. Follow the money and don't stop. You will see what I am talking about "eolesen". Since birth someone is making money off you. We as a people have falling deep into "public preception". That's why they are polices and not laws anymore because of "contract protection" from guilt. People not understanding the difference in "legal" and "lawful". You should be focusing on where in the world Bush and Obama get the money to okay stim checks and packages and wars then what Obama's followers are doing. We the people pay the loan back, but who okay's the money for these actions taken by the president? Trust me, not congress. Your ignorance will keep you in bondage. Remember owe no man on earth. I speak on union vs. non-union because us as Americans working is the only way things keep running the way it is. Right to keep a job?No. Respect and understanding about the way our nation is truly set up? Yes. Oh yeah JetBlue pilots? Why you guys don't consult with leading industry pay workers or leading industry company's with union backing about unions. You ask a non-union workforce about having a union. What can they tell you. They admitted things are bad without union protection. Do you honestly believe them not having a contract (a recognized/legal voice) is going to help them? No. Ask a Enron employee. They tried to get there money, but no beans. I advise you to end your all forum memberships you have and go to ebay and see how much a vintage mustang cost.

I actually agree with most of that statement, but to say that you are not in favor of a union is a stretch.

 

[DAL Mech]

Thank you for filling me in.

Obviously, you know that these are all issues that a CBA eliminates, so I won't go there.

That said, now that DL is "familiar" with RIF's, are these problems solved? Are there now clearer policies in place (I mean for Tech Ops; I know there isn't for ACS) to prevent a recurrence of these issues?






Color me pleasantly surprised.




Or ask all the ones that have organized why they felt the need to do so...





... Or see how quickly management calls the police (what are they afraid of, anyway?!)...

I certainly hope they learned something, hopefully they wont need to implement it.

 

[WoRkInG]

I actually agree with most of that statement, but to say that you are not in favor of a union is a stretch.

Im in favor of contractual agreements because that's what the courts recognize outside of pre-judgement and discrimination.

 

[Vimes]

You haven't answered my questions. You top grade A Delta product. I ask a question and you give me everything but an answer. Just like your management. My question was simple, cut and dry. I thought if you ask for something, its either a "yes" or "no" with rational reasoning or cause (if you ask why). With the comment on bankruptcy, "all it takes is a bankruptcy judge", you sound like Mr. Anderson on the Squawk Box. Yes, it is a fact a bankruptcy can open contracts for concessions or void them, but if a CEO will take it that far to break a contract or bust a union, then I feel bad for the workers and investors in that company. Wait!! Delta's CEO would go that far, i.e., Mesa, money owed to the city of MSP, contract with Boeing for planes, and do some research on how Anderson has his Regional Handling Service waiting on a no vote from ramp so they can step in Sept 1 and start working domestic. They are already somewhat working Intl side. Look at the ASM MTC ratio. You guys are short handed so they go out and get ASM's and top out scabs and pull from guys from the shops before they pull from the RIF list. Like I said DAL Mech, you're not suitable for representation like the pilots and dispatchers. You can't even answer a simple question. You are doing good for now and I hope you will never be in another RIF or situation to which you will have to leave because of decisions made by upper management and not by your own merit. You still have the mentality that if the company is doing good, you don't have nothing to worry about. What about when the company is doing bad? So you should have no questions if they tell you that you will have to leave because the company is doing bad right? For anybody seeing this please for the sake of argument, please have rational reasoning or cause when making life decisions like getting a job, home, or car. I'm Done, no need for reply.

"Working"

Dal Mech did answer you apparently you were unable to comprehend the response. You start off with "You top grade A Delta product" HOW FREAKING DARE YOU! The guy was nice and polite in his response while you respond in a snide snotty school yard bully manner. Grow up. Go back to school your grammar is deplorable as is your reading comprehension.

You seem moderately adept at the superficial but the deeper understanding, the details of the why's is where your problem is. You are the perfect sheeple. I am sick and tired of people trying to have open discussion and the only responses are nasty childish name calling followed by post that lack any and all substance. If you are pro-union you are only harming your cause with your nastiness and your inability to communicate in an rational adult manner.

 

[Kieran]

This thread has used up all the runway.

Topic closed.