Issues Affecting Canadian Industry?

[Over-Talk]

Blackmac, that sounds great. Thanks for the clarification.

Now back to the topic..............what should Vertical Mag write about ??
Hmmmmmmm...............how about a story on HEPAC.
It would be useful to help spread the word to those of our brethren that don't spend their spare time loitering around at the CAaviation Heli forum.

 

[amodao]

Our biggest problem in this indusrty is that we have too many helicopters for the amount of work that is available. This also means there are too many helicopter pilots and engineers. It's a question of supply and demand. We have too many helicopters trying to get the same work and the customers can pick and choose whomever they want. It's all dollars and cents, the lowest bidder gets the work. This is the same for heli crews. The grass is greener on the other side mentality is rampant and when times are tough we will do anything to keep or get a job. As for the junior pilots and apprentices coming out of school and hoping to get jobs, good luck. I think they should of done their home work before making the investment in time and money. I also don't understand where this pilot and engineer association is going to be of any help to our industry. We are the industry and it is currently every man/women/company for themselves. How do you stop that? I have no answers, just an opinion. What do you think?

 

[Vertical Mag]

Sorry Cyclic Monkey. I didn’t sense the humor at the time. That’s the thing with forums and emails, things can be taken the wrong way.

Definitely some good points made to be brought up in the various interviews that are planned.

Rates will always be at the top of the list – higher rates should have a domino effect on higher wages, newer equipment, etc. But, unfortunately you will only get four out of five companies to raise their rates while the fifth company moves in to scoop up the work at a lower rate. Remember when Northern Mountain went under? There seemed to be a small increase in rates from companies like VIH, CHL, Alpine, but that only lasted a little while before one operator expanded into western Canada. :angry:

This is where I show my ignorance…by self-insuring your hauls, can you really afford to let an AS 250B2 go for $1,000 an hour? What’s surprising about this operator is that all the equipment that they operate is top-notch (from what I’ve been told anyway). I was at Eagle a month ago and saw a 205 being readied for the operator that is taking over the heli-ski contract that Campbell had – there was no expense being spared, and I’ve heard from other shops the same thing. So, if this is the case how can you afford to let aircraft go at these rates? :blink:

As far as HAC and what it has done or not done for the people that work for the operators…has anyone approached the Association to address pilot and engineer concerns?

Amodoa…I’m surprised to hear you say that there are too many pilots and engineers in the industry. Everyone else seems to be talking about a shortage of people that could severely impact the industry in the next 5 to 10 years.

I do agree with you that the market is oversaturated with helicopters, but what do you do? I know of only two companies that have been responsible when it came to consolidating their fleets by selling their a/c out of the country – they would not sell to a Canadian operator. But every year after a half-decent fire season what do operators do? Buy more equipment. Although, I have noticed that at one time the thing to do was buy an intermediate because not everyone had one – it would set you apart from the competition. Now everyone has one, so now operators are buying mediums. Anyone ever notice how many mediums have been added to the registry over the past 18 months? Seems like everyone want s a 205 now! :wacko:

One issue I’m surprised that wasn’t brought up is regional disparity within Transport Canada (sorry CTD ). Could this be because this is an issue only for those running the companies and not so much an issue for the drivers and fixers?

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

 

[CTD]

Sorry? Don't be - I agree with you. plus, I'm not really involved with the regions much, so I'm sheltered from all that nonsense.

And.... the reason that regional disparity within TC likely wouldn't get brought up in a forum of pilots, is that the vast majority only have to deal with one region, and don't see it.

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Too many pilot's and engineer's??? :huh:

 

[MagSeal]

let me rephrase that...

there is too many good pilots and engineers.

If you prove your worth, you have( and keep) those good jobs

 

[Nomex]

Vertical Mag said:

by self-insuring your hauls, can you really afford to let an AS 250B2 go for $1,000 an hour? What’s surprising about this operator is that all the equipment that they operate is top-notch (from what I’ve been told anyway).

Mike

I am not current on the per hour costs for a B2, which may be something to establish if you are doing an article....in any case, IF the machine is purchased outright - no loan and IF there is no hull insurance, you are left only with maintenance costs (and liability coverage) plus what it costs to pay employees and maintain the company etc - no loan & no insurance is a chunk of change to save.

As most of this operator's machines are new, the big maintenance costs are a ways down the road. What a few owners with lots of $$$ have done (at least in the past) is buy new and sell prior to any major component overhaul/change. The selling price is a bit less with some components ready to retire, but the machines are still relatively new & low time, and 2-4 years of no financing/insurance makes up for that and more.

And yes, all the machines I saw from that company are top notch, most new or as new if they are mediums.

Have fun interrogating those companies!

 

[amodao]

Vertical Reference,
How many helicopter pilots and engineers are seasonal employee's? They work for 3 to 6 months depending on operational requirements. If you were to base these peoples employment on a 12 month work year you will find that there are too many for the amount of work available. Even if you take into account our industries future requirements the amount of flying will remain about the same, therefore the requirements for staffing levels will remain the same. The question is how many full-time sustainable positions can the industry support? :huh:

 

[Blackmac]

Amodao: Instead of posing a question that you seem to have the answer to, why don't you provide it. The statistics are up to you.

With anticipation, Don

 

[MagSeal]

I'm not going to hazard a guess on actual numbers, but there is a high enough turn over of people to absorb the flow from schools, at least on the engineering side anyway. Too many guys for many reasons move thru the system like a bucket with a number of holes thru it. If you plugged all the holes, ie) excellent wages, excellent rotations, respect, and whatever else you can imagine, then you might suddenly find yourself with a large group of newbies from college with no place to park their toolboxes.

 

[Blackmac]

Mag Seal, the pressure is on and I really don't know if I can handle it. The question was possed to Amadao and I would appreciate his answer.
People have a problem, of stating their own answers that they think people want, instead of letting people state their own opinion that was originally asked for.

Thanks, Don

 

[MagSeal]

I'm sorry Donny, I didnt realise that you had the whole post on hold waiting for him to reply. I was busy writing my post when you managed to sneak one in there. My apoligies once again, for not checking with you before I voice my opinion.

 

[Blackmac]

Mag Seal: Smarten up.

 

[Frequent Flyer]

I think a big issue aswell is client education. With the right people at the helm companies realise the value of thier expertise. Clients need to be made aware that the lowest bid isnt the best answer. A company can bid jobs bare bones but make up the difference along the way. Its the role of the good honest operators to get in and make the client aware of thier shady practices. Its not a pipe dream people. Good people attract good clients paying good rates. Its all downflow. Treat your people well and watch the doors open. Look at the success of companies that have already woken up to this fact. Good employee loyalty and rates that others only dream of.

 

[Nomex]

Frequent Flyer:

Just to complicate matters more, just because the winner is the lowest bid, doesn't mean the work provided is less than adequate - what do you do when a certain company is able to bid low and still make the same profit as another company that has to bid several hundred more an hour (like mentioned before, less overhead - less insurance /no $$ loan etc) - that company will scoop the work.

With the company in question that was referred to a few times earlier, the company may be the low, low bider, but they still make a profit (I understand) and the employees are paid pretty well and the machines are top notch. What can you do - its a free enterprise and if someone can charge less, provide the same quality service, he'll likely get the work. Just is kinda tough for all the other operators to compete.

I don't know the answer - maybe offer something the other company can't or look for another market that isn't being pressured by low tariffs - is there such a thing?

Is HAC interested at all in some dialogue on these matters or are rates taboo?

That's why we have someone like Mike out there to shake the trees and generate some discussion.