Jim Was There - Where Was Delle?

[Moveon]

Pro-amfa - nice try with the spin but you are a joke. Jim Little challenged Delle to a debate yesterday in Tulsa and Delle simply didn't have the guts to show up. Jim was there. Where was Delle???

The TWU is the incumbent union on the property and its within our rights to set the terms of the debate. As Jim Little said to the crowd yesterday (and got a standing ovation), he's "not going to chase Delle's happy ass all around the system."

I thought Jim was quite generous to offer this debate opportunity to Delle particularly since it is questionable whether AFMA has the cards needed to get an election. In fact the one AMFA supporter who did have the guts to stand up at the microphone yesterday focused his questions on the voter eligibility list. He didn't address substantive issues - it was all whining about not having enough cards.

BTW, I was also amused that in Delle's new debate request, he's too scared to debate Jim alone. Delle wants Seman and Wildermuth by his side to answer the tough questions or the questions he can't remember the answers to. Don't you chumps have a convention soon? Maybe you guys should use all of that democracy you claim to have to vote the little hobbit out of office and send him to the retirement home.

 

[proAMFA]

Well Jim's going to have to do something because when the ballots arrive the TWU is gone. So its up to Jim. Do something or hope there is no election. The mechanics and related have been sold out one too many times at AA. If that were not true you would not be on this forum attempting to defend the TWU.

Do nothing I don't care....

 

[Moveon]

Let me try to help you out here ProAmfa. Jim has done something. He had the guts to show up in Tulsa for yesterday's debate. It was Delle who sent the letter two days before the debate saying he wouldn't show up. We're ready to win an election. I just don't know whether you boys turned in enough cards to get the election.

 

[Decision 2004]

I hate to intrude on this arguement between you two, but...

This election and movement is NOT about a debate or non-debate between Delle and Jim Little. Just as this election and movement is NOT about the current state of the airline industry and the finanical troubles of AA.

IT IS ABOUT OUR PROFESSION!

The Concept of “Craft or Classâ€￾
This is Federal Legal concept “Craft or Classâ€￾

In accordance with the Railway Labor Act, the Federal Government has decided that certain work groups have a mutuality of interest at the bargaining table and in advancing worker related issues, and that groups outside of that particular craft or class should have no participation in how the union is run or at least in the initial decision as to who represents that work group. And so Pilots vote with Pilots, and Flight Attendants as matter of law are prohibited from voting with the Pilots. And in turn, the Pilots are prohibited by law from voting with the Flight Attendants because they are considered to be in different Craft or Classes by the National Mediation Board. And Mechanic and Related Workers within the Airline Industry are entitled by law to vote just amongst themselves.

Supporters of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) believe that it comprises our mission to remain associated within a union structure with other crafts or classes that according to Federal Government do NOT share our mutuality of interest. The mission is further compromised when we remain associated with other crafts or classes within the union structure of “majority ruleâ€￾ and our particular craft or class is the minority in size. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is the only union in this current debate at American Airlines that says “We will forbid ourselvesâ€￾, it will be unconstitutional for us to go and represent baggage handlers, flight attendants, or passenger service clerks, and we will not let ourselves do that because this would compromise our mission. We wish the baggage handlers and other crafts or classes on the property the very best, but they cannot pick our pockets, we wish them to get the very best on their own, but they should no longer be allowed to ride on our backs. In other words, it is time for the airline industry to decouple the mechanic vs. baggage handler pay and benefit structure. It is suffice to say that since deregulation of the airline industry which since enactment has created enormous competition and pressure on airline ticket pricing, and that has resulted in the craft or class of mechanic and related workers suffering in economic buying power, and especially when compared to the Pilots and Flight Attendants who at American belong to craft specific unions. In the mid 1970’s, the Flight Attendants of American Airlines were also represented by the Transport Workers Union of American (TWU), and just as the mechanics today seek a change to a craft specific union, they also left the TWU in favor of the independent Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) The craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American Airlines can no longer afford to remain in an organization that advocates a linking of different work groups that according to law do not share a mutuality of interest.

Regardless of good or bad economic times, and regardless of whether the union is negotiating concessions to prevent a bankruptcy filing or negotiating from economic growth with corporate profits, the formula by which the economic pie is divided amongst the union membership is a union decision. The recent concession are a clear case in point, because American Airlines was demanding $620 Million in concessions from the TWU, but how those give backs were divided up was a union decision, not a company decision. And the facts are clear, that the craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American took more than our fair share of that amount, and it is also clear this was a union decision.

AMFA IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SKILLED TECHNICIANS

 

[High Speed Steel]

Wow Decision 2004, you never cease to amaze me...! Wasn't it you that has complained about a debate between the top brass of the AMFA and Jim Little all along...? Why all of a sudden do you dismiss a debate..? Are you admitting that your AMFA leader lacks the charisma to debate the TWU/ATD director Jim Little...?
Really Decision....WHY/WHY/WHY....????????

-------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Decision 2004]

Wow Decision 2004, you never cease to amaze me...! Wasn't it you that has complained about a debate between the top brass of the AMFA and Jim Little all along...? Why all of a sudden do you dismiss a debate..? Are you admitting that your AMFA leader lacks the charisma to debate the TWU/ATD director Jim Little...?
Really Decision....WHY/WHY/WHY....????????

-------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

I still think there should be a debate and I believe both sides have missed chances to participate in one.

But that still doesn't change what would be the subject of debate and why the majority are seeking change.

I don't know who has what "charisma" and really don't care. If your union is really democratic then your leader can be removed if he is failing you.

WE are suppose to be the union, not the leaders.

I firmly believe that there is plenty of evidence to support that this election and movement is not about a debate, if it is then you must remember the "cancellation" notice from the TWU past. The threatened Owasso High School Principle and other facts that prove this movement has been in works since long before 9/11, long before AA was threatening Bankruptcy, long before the business traveler decided to stop being gouged by the legacy carriers, long before Jim Little was even ATD Director.

It is only the TWU that wants to debate Bankruptcy and Failed Appearances at recent debate offers, and that is because the TWENTY YEAR history of leading the industry in concessions has NO EXCUSES of that sort.

It doesn't go un-noticed that neither you or any other TWU advocate has ever made an attempt at disputing the "craft or class" concept and why that is a better idea than industrial unionism for the skilled worker. This is not a new debate subject and we are not pioneers in this arguement, simply read some Labor History about Samuel Gompers and unionism pre-AFL-CIO merger. The reason the hyphen is between the AFL and the CIO is because craft unionist during the merger convention fully expected todays' type of revolution against industrial unionism by the skilled.

Now carry on with your personal attacks, name calling, and blind following of common liars. We will continue the revolution and finish the job.

 

[My World]

Decision 2004

the Spin Master

 

[Decision 2004]

Decision 2004

the Spin Master

MY World

A man of many intellegent words.

A Master Debater

 

[Dallas Air Mach]

I still think there should be a debate and I believe both sides have missed chances to participate in one.

But that still doesn't change what would be the subject of debate and why the majority are seeking change.

I don't know who has what "charisma" and really don't care. If your union is really democratic then your leader can be removed if he is failing you.

WE are suppose to be the union, not the leaders.

I firmly believe that there is plenty of evidence to support that this election and movement is not about a debate, if it is then you must remember the "cancellation" notice from the TWU past. The threatened Owasso High School Principle and other facts that prove this movement has been in works since long before 9/11, long before AA was threatening Bankruptcy, long before the business traveler decided to stop being gouged by the legacy carriers, long before Jim Little was even ATD Director.

It is only the TWU that wants to debate Bankruptcy and Failed Appearances at recent debate offers, and that is because the TWENTY YEAR history of leading the industry in concessions has NO EXCUSES of that sort.

It doesn't go un-noticed that neither you or any other TWU advocate has ever made an attempt at disputing the "craft or class" concept and why that is a better idea than industrial unionism for the skilled worker. This is not a new debate subject and we are not pioneers in this arguement, simply read some Labor History about Samuel Gompers and unionism pre-AFL-CIO merger. The reason the hyphen is between the AFL and the CIO is because craft unionist during the merger convention fully expected todays' type of revolution against industrial unionism by the skilled.

Now carry on with your personal attacks, name calling, and blind following of common liars. We will continue the revolution and finish the job.

Now carry on with your personal attacks, name calling, and blind following of common liars. We will continue the revolution and finish the job



WOW< one post clearly states the TWU supporters are name calling and charging personal attacks,, accusing of being liars, and then, his next post,

MY World

A man of many intellegent words.

A Master Debater


Feel as if I must carry a scorecard to keep score, as I see , and count, You, Dave are clearly leading in name calling and personal attacks

Carry on the revolution.and finish the job..................Yes sir, thats correct, if AMFA should win, we will clearly going back in time, WAY BACK, to the revolution days

 

[Bob Owens]

....WHY/WHY/WHY....????????

Why should AMFA debate the TWU at this time?

What is the purpose of the debate when card collecting has ceased and the election has yet to be announced?

Why all of a sudden, after years of declining to debate is the TWU so desperate to debate?

 

[Hopeful]

Does anyone really need a debate?

The TWU sold us down the river! They sold us down the river with the 1995 six year contract!

Do you really need a debate!

It's like the presidential election, does anyone need a debate to see who their going to vote for?

Presidential candidates pay millions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to campaign. Money they ask for from fundraisers.

The only difference is the TWU took away millions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that they DID NOT ask for!

 

[scab scraper]

Spoken like a true fish DAAAAAVE.
I mean flip/flop/flip/flop.
So y'all want to re-organize the NMB, tell the goverment how to run their business.
Y'all WILL never be satisfied with anything.
You are getting like yap/yap boob(I mean bob) @ JFK. You two trying to out do one another with a show of many words. That mean nothing!!!!
YOU had a chance to show up & didn't. Why didn't this so called amfa (PUKE) local
show up & show how they could do better??
You want to debate.....no we don't .....yes, we do if Jim Little is there....no, we don't no matter if he is. Well, Jim was here. Now, he is gone so you can say we want to debate.
Daaaaave why don't you ask the NMB how they decide who votes.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT A SCAB THINKS HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE.......
GET IT SCAB?????
YOU are just someone who has ONE vote use it or lose it.
Go on/on all you want trying to impress with many words.
If y'all are JUST half as smart as y'all THINK you are then WHY don't y'all SHOW up for the debates & convince everyone that the "SCAB" way is the right way?
Let me tell you & you "SCABS" don't get this but we'll tell y'all again.
LISTEN UP NOW THIS IS REAL/REAL SIMPLE. I THINK EVEN A SCAB CAN UNDERSTAND IT. YOU READY? HERE IT IS.............................
JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS
amfa(PUKE) will never change anything because "we are a stand alone ASSOciation"
TWU/AFL/CIO/ATD....UNITED WE STAND!!!!!! SCAB FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Buck]

TWU/AFL/CIO/ATD....UNITED WE STAND!!!!!! SCAB FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except John Orlando of the TWU International........

 

[Decision 2004]

Spoken like a true fish DAAAAAVE.
I mean flip/flop/flip/flop.
So y'all want to re-organize the NMB, tell the goverment how to run their business.
Y'all WILL never be satisfied with anything.
You are getting like yap/yap boob(I mean bob) @ JFK. You two trying to out do one another with a show of many words. That mean nothing!!!!
YOU had a chance to show up & didn't. Why didn't this so called amfa (PUKE) local
show up & show how they could do better??
You want to debate.....no we don't .....yes, we do if Jim Little is there....no, we don't no matter if he is. Well, Jim was here. Now, he is gone so you can say we want to debate.
Daaaaave why don't you ask the NMB how they decide who votes.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT A SCAB THINKS HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE.......
GET IT SCAB?????
YOU are just someone who has ONE vote use it or lose it.
Go on/on all you want trying to impress with many words.
If y'all are JUST half as smart as y'all THINK you are then WHY don't y'all SHOW up for the debates & convince everyone that the "SCAB" way is the right way?
Let me tell you & you "SCABS" don't get this but we'll tell y'all again.
LISTEN UP NOW THIS IS REAL/REAL SIMPLE. I THINK EVEN A SCAB CAN UNDERSTAND IT. YOU READY? HERE IT IS.............................
JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS/JOBS
amfa(PUKE) will never change anything because "we are a stand alone ASSOciation"
TWU/AFL/CIO/ATD....UNITED WE STAND!!!!!! SCAB FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That has to be the best display of fear, and desperation ever shown to date.

You really should be concerned that your own so-called supporters didn't bother to show to watch the really big Jim Little show. Instead you worry about those of us that think for ourselves and oppose your pathetic concessions for jobs program. How much in dues money did that farce cost you?

What Part of "You Don't Have a Union" Don't You Understand?

How low can your pay and benefit go before you will call your job - SLAVE?
Is your next big labor move to lower the pay to min. wage so everyone can work for an airline? Afterall, it's all about "JOBS" right? Pay and benefits don't matter, as long as you get to set your alarm, drive to work, and enjoy 8.5 of your day slaving for someone else.

Let's take a vote! I think the majority will not agree with "SCAB SCRAPER"!

Your not about unionism, your about removing the middle class from the payrolls in the name of thousands of jobs! You want the poor to get poorer and the rich to get richer, all in the name of jobs/jobs/jobs/jobs/jobs/jobs!

 

[Buck]

I vote against scab scraper