JUSTICE DEPT SUES TO BLOCK US/AA MERGER

[WorldTraveler]

I believe a train operator took out about 80 lives in Spain not too long ago.

 

[eolesen]

Yep. Another 38 died in Canada in the oil train derailment because the engineer apparently forgot to set all the hand brakes and the brake pressure bled off releasing the brakes (same reason wheels get chocked on airplanes and ground equipment...).

And at least six people died today in Sao Paolo in a building collapse.

 

[MCI transplant]

Yep, your absolutely right! Anyone can screw up! ----- But can all of the above have their livelihoods taken away from them, fined, through in jail, for something they did, or neglected to do, five, ten years, or longer, down the line? The F.A.A. has been known to do exactly that! And how many people are exposed to that Aircraft on a yearly bases vrs. a carpenters work, even a train engineer? Now multiply that by the number of Aircraft an AMT may work on in a years time! And you get the approximate number of people potentially exposed to that man's work! Remember an AMT can signs off "Air Worthy" items on a "daily" bases! And routinely does so! That piece of paper stays with that Aircraft until it's scraped. No mater who owns it, or how long that might be!----- So no, I don't believe I'm over stating an AMT's worth!!!

 

[MCI transplant]

Yep. Another 38 died in Canada in the oil train derailment because the engineer apparently forgot to set all the hand brakes and the brake pressure bled off releasing the brakes (same reason wheels get chocked on airplanes and ground equipment...).

And at least six people died today in Sao Paolo in a building collapse.

So are they going after the construction company, who contracted to build the collapsed building? Or the individuals who designed, or worked on, the failed building? ------- Believe me when I tell you that if there is any discrepancies involving the F.A.A., AA will not hesitate to throw an AMT to the wolves if they feel it would get them off the hook! ------ What I'm saying is the company routinely delegates liability to the individual AMT, and that should be should be taken into account during negotiations for compensation!

 

[Bob Owens]

AA might have 6 year contracts in the bag but if labor continues to see pay well below their peers while the company racks up very strong profits, the wheels will fall off the bus very quickly.
The biggest change in AA's costs was for labor. Revenue went up nicely for this month but they didn't have to go into BK to do that.

Agree, and the numbers prove that AA did not need the concessions from labor at all. $200 million in just one month is pretty good, imagine what it could have been if AA had a workforce that approached their job every day like workers at WN.

 

[Jacobin777]

Agree, and the numbers prove that AA did not need the concessions from labor at all. $200 million in just one month is pretty good, imagine what it could have been if AA had a workforce that approached their job every day like workers at WN.

Funny you mention WN, last I recall, WN's employees were some of the most efficient in the business while some of AA's (especially the pilots) were some of the least efficient.

Also, reducing average salary by about 8.7% did help the bottom line.

 

[dfw gen]

 

[dfw gen]

unable to post script with the picture but does anyone remember this slogan? thats right onstead of families it was two airlines one great future......

 

[Jacobin777]

AA is taking on enormous debt in order to reduce operational costs in the short term while other carriers including AA, B6, DL, and WN among others are also adding lower CASM aircraft but doing so without taking on near as much debt. UA is also taking on huge amounts of debt for fleet renewal and will be parking older aircraft very aggressively as well. DL has already said they expect to pay for their 100 fleet order of 739ERs without increasing their debt levels; the M90s are being bought used for cash while the 717s are on leases that DL is expected to buy out when they can. AA can’t possibly say their balance sheet won’t be hit by their fleet renewal – and neither can UA.

As much as it kills you to admit it, AA is investing tens of billions of dollars in fleet renewal and will get very little real operational cost advantage relative to its peers.

DL is ordering 100 Boeing single isle planes (the largest of the subset:B737-900ER) and today announced an order for price equivilent of 97 Airbus single planes (A330-300 is 2.23 list price of an A321OEO*) for a total of almost 200 planes.

AA is ordering billions of dollars of planes and will have a huge financial burden and will get "very little real operational advantages relative to its peers" yet when DL orders billions of dollars planes its not only no problems but "Toasts around the table in Cincinnati today. ".

Don't forget, when DL orders planes it will be able to increase and optimize its fleet for routes/cities/sectors, yet when AA does the same thing, its a "FAIL".


Talk about hypcrosisy at its best. Thanks for the laugh WT.


*-source: Airbus.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I never said what you would like to think I did.

I have no problems with AA ordering airplanes - it is a standard part of the business, at least for any airline that wants to stay in business and not shrink since airplanes do have life limits.

DL has now ordered 10 - TEN - new widebody aircraft for delivery over the next five years and 130 - ONE HUNDRED THIRTY - new narrowbody aircraft.
AA's order book is MULTIPLES larger than DL's. UA's is not as large as AA's but both are still far in excess of either's ability to generate free cash, which means their debt levels will grow.

The reason why AA isn't getting operational advantages is because its peers are ordering ENOUGH - but not necessarily more - aircraft to keep AA from obtaining an advantage - but aren't taking on the levels of debt with the size of the orders that AA has. And it also doesn't change that DL is taking on almost as many USED narrowbody aircraft that have very similar cost performance yet with a whole lot less debt - the M90s have been bought with cash.

I have said that the SIZE of AA's aircraft orders and the debt and obligations that AA will take on are highly problematic given the cyclical nature of the business and the fact that AA's balance sheet will be stressed coming out of BK, including because they have pension obligations.

Facts, not opinion.

 

[bigjets]

The New AA should move the corporate HQ to PHX, and move the Miami operation to SJU and South Carolina for going against AA. Miami is important, but it can be turned into a focus city rather then a hub.

 

[MCI transplant]

The New AA should move the corporate HQ to PHX, and move the Miami operation to SJU and South Carolina for going against AA. Miami is important, but it can be turned into a focus city rather then a hub.

The New AA should move the corporate HQ to PHX, and move the Miami operation to SJU and South Carolina for going against AA. Miami is important, but it can be turned into a focus city rather then a hub.

"Move the Miami operation to SJU"? You got to be kidding! Have you ever been to the SJU Airport? ------- I have!

 

[dfw gen]

That's why this merger should not happen.

 

[1AA]

Agree, and the numbers prove that AA did not need the concessions from labor at all. $200 million in just one month is pretty good, imagine what it could have been if AA had a workforce that approached their job every day like workers at WN.

Think how much more money AA would be making if they were not painting the aircraft and all the $$$ spent on re-branding. We were all taken for suckers again. Once in 2003 and again in 2012 and counting. The DOJ is surely looking into all this. AA though they could fool the public and the government like they fooled labor in 03 and 12.

 

[Jacobin777]

I never said what you would like to think I did.

I have no problems with AA ordering airplanes - it is a standard part of the business, at least for any airline that wants to stay in business and not shrink since airplanes do have life limits.

DL has now ordered 10 - TEN - new widebody aircraft for delivery over the next five years and 130 - ONE HUNDRED THIRTY - new narrowbody aircraft.
AA's order book is MULTIPLES larger than DL's. UA's is not as large as AA's but both are still far in excess of either's ability to generate free cash, which means their debt levels will grow.

The reason why AA isn't getting operational advantages is because its peers are ordering ENOUGH - but not necessarily more - aircraft to keep AA from obtaining an advantage - but aren't taking on the levels of debt with the size of the orders that AA has. And it also doesn't change that DL is taking on almost as many USED narrowbody aircraft that have very similar cost performance yet with a whole lot less debt - the M90s have been bought with cash.

I have said that the SIZE of AA's aircraft orders and the debt and obligations that AA will take on are highly problematic given the cyclical nature of the business and the fact that AA's balance sheet will be stressed coming out of BK, including because they have pension obligations.

Facts, not opinion.

Oh you have indeed stated what I think you did because I've quoted a number of your comments, and don't tell me I've miscontrued them.

What makes you think your numbers of orders is the proper order (or "enough" as you put it)? Why is it that if DL orders XYZ amount its ok, but if another carrier ordering ABC amount its wrong? Is it what WT thinks is proper is the proper amount? Sounds rather dogmatic to me WT and not "Facts, not opinion." as you so incorrectly put it.

AA's earnings/revenues have improved and will continue to improve. Also, if the merger doesn't happen (which is a distinct possibilty now), wages won't be going up for a while (no matter what you think will happen).

You also don't know what financing DL and especially AA has gotten. We do know however DL's deliveries for both and Airbus are in the next few years (5) and AA's is almost a 10 year deal (2013-2022). As I also stated, DL's 10 widebody order + 30 A321's is equivilent to 150 (apologies of the "almost 200" I previously stated-typed it rather quickly).

Regardless, 150 or 200, DL has a lot of new planes coming in the next 5 years.

Like I said, hyprocrisy at its best.

Regards.