Lowering The Standards Of The A&P At AA

[paul1]

The lowering of the standards at AA for the work that is performed on aircraft, is a problem that has been going on for years.

First lets look at deicing. This is totally controlled by fleet service. Before a A&P and fleet accomplished the job together. Type 2 deicng, I remember being told years ago in training that only A&P's will apply type 2, less than a year later fleet service was doing all the type one and two deicing.

Second and this one really gets me is the wing ice INSPECTION done by fleet service. How the hell are union let this go on is beyond me. It is a inspection of the aircraft and should be done by a A&P. (the pilots don't even ####)

How many A&P's can hardly speak and read english (no jokes about my typing please)

How many A&P's are totally clueless about there job and are always calling for help. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with calling for help, but I'm sure many of you understand what I'm trying to say.

Whats next fleet service driving the super tugs (lucky the FAA did put a stop to that one, due to runway incursions) oh yea AA did try that at ORD years ago by having fleet service push airplanes off the hardstand (now T5) and tow the airplane to the gate over acitive taxi ways. Even one @$$hole A&P was helpng to train them.

The list goes on and on. At northwest airlines the IAM took over A&P jobs overnight when AFMA walked out.

What about random drug testing for all employees. I was told that less than 1% of employees in random testing test postive. But for employees tested after a incident, it jumps up to 8-10% (and they are doing INSPECTIONS and other critical work)


Thanks to Bob for bringing this up. http://www.twu562.org click on prez. update

 

[Mach85ER]

Second and this one really gets me is the wing ice INSPECTION done by fleet service. How the hell are union let this go on is beyond me. It is a inspection of the aircraft and should be done by a A&P. (the pilots don't even ####)

Huh?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Paul1,

The reason our union allowed AMTs to lose job functions, ie. deicing, push backs, etc. is because the twu really did not lose anything when rampers took over these responsibilities. The twu still represented the individuals doing these jobs and continued to receive dues money from them. Why should they care about AMTs? What do they think we were going to do? get another union? Oh wait! We are getting another union.

You see, with AMP the membership is the union and the union is not an extension of HR.

Protect our craft and profession!

GO AMP!

PS: I would like the twu faithful to defend the twu's actions in allowing AMT job functions going to non-AMTs.

 

[lineguy43]

Paul1,

The reason our union allowed AMTs to lose job functions, ie. deicing, push backs, etc. is because the twu really did not lose anything when rampers took over these responsibilities. The twu still represented the individuals doing these jobs and continued to receive dues money from them. Why should they care about AMTs? What do they think we were going to do? get another union? Oh wait! We are getting another union.

You see, with AMP the membership is the union and the union is not an extension of HR.

Protect our craft and profession!

GO AMP!

PS: I would like the twu faithful to defend the twu's actions in allowing AMT job functions going to non-AMTs.

Absolutely spot on Ken. The IAM did the same thing at NWA way before AMFA ever came along. The last thing we were able to hold on to was pushbacks. Everything else had been given to the ramp and in the end the ramp got the pushbacks as well and we all were looking for new employers (except for the scabs).

 

[DFWFSC]

You would really enjoy my station. Fleet service does all the deicing, along with operating the APU's, brake riding and transfering fuel.We can even get the A/C packs running when it gets too hot. And were all checked out by a M&R instructor from DFW.

 

[TWU informer]

I hope you all realize that is not just the standard of the A&P that has been lowering. We have Welders and Machinist Upgrading that do not have to test anymore. We have Security guards and Staff Assistants that have become SRP/OSM's. We have HR reps that are now Production Control Planners. We have Production Control Planners that are now Supervisors.We even have TWU Stooges acting as Managers via the "Working Together" process making decisons that have a direct impact on the Tulsa Maintenance Base daily. We have an elected Local Financial Secretary Treasurer that requires the previous Treasurer to be on Full Paid Union Business Extension to keep the job of keeping Local Finances in order. We have a Fleet Service Clerk as the President of the Largest Maintnence Local in the AA System.

You couldn't get any further across the lowering standards line, if you did their would be a complete collapse of some safety function. Oh, that's right, AA has been fined and investigated by the FAA of late on a number of safety issues. :unsure: But no way that has anything to do with this issue so relax.

 

[Mach85ER]

Usually takes me about 1.25 seconds looking at all the switches to figure out if someone has been playing airplane pilot overnight.

 

[jetmechjer]

The reason our union allowed AMTs to lose job functions, ie. deicing, push backs, etc. is because the twu really did not lose anything when rampers took over these responsibilities. The twu still represented the individuals doing these jobs and continued to receive dues money from them. Why should they care about AMTs? What do they think we were going to do? get another union?


Very good point Ken!! I also have to wonder if there is a coflict of interest with TWU representing Eagle. No reason to save AA jobs because if they go to Eagle they still have a TWU dues paying member!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The reason our union allowed AMTs to lose job functions, ie. deicing, push backs, etc. is because the twu really did not lose anything when rampers took over these responsibilities. The twu still represented the individuals doing these jobs and continued to receive dues money from them. Why should they care about AMTs? What do they think we were going to do? get another union?


Very good point Ken!! I also have to wonder if there is a coflict of interest with TWU representing Eagle. No reason to save AA jobs because if they go to Eagle they still have a TWU dues paying member!!

No conflict of interest here. The twu takes dues money from both AA and AE AMTs and the int. reps. are just as unaccountable representing either group.

 

[Bob Owens]

I hope you all realize that is not just the standard of the A&P that has been lowering. We have Welders and Machinist Upgrading that do not have to test anymore.

But if they want to paint walls in Title II they do have to test. Go figure?

As far as having an FSC president, I've seen some of the Title I Presidents that have come out of 514. I often hear people say we should get lawyers to negotiate for us, then they say we need a mechanic to run the Local. The first time I ran for office I ran with an Cleaner who was running for the Presidents slot, why? Because he knew the job better and was the best man for the job, I wanted someone who could run the Local not someone who could fix airplanes.

 

[Vortilon]

Regarding having a FSC being the president of the largest AMT local in the system. He may or may not know the the job, if he does - well great. You will never convince me his heart would be in it - during negotiations for AMTs. FSCs have ridden the coat tails of AMTs for years. If that's not enough, they have taken work from us as well. I don't care if he's a nice guy or not; bottom line, an AMT should be president of local 514. There has to be more than a few AMTs that could handle the position without selling their soul.

 

[will fix for food]

Very good point Ken!! I also have to wonder if there is a coflict of interest with TWU representing Eagle. No reason to save AA jobs because if they go to Eagle they still have a TWU dues paying member!!

;I would think they would like AA to fatten up and Eagle to slim down. Two hours of base pay at AA is more than two hours of base pay at Eagle.

 

[AANOTOK]

FSCs have ridden the coat tails of AMTs for years. If that's not enough, they have taken work from us as well.

Exactly what are you saying Vortilon, you should be paid more at my expense. Or, I make too much, therefore you can't realize your maximum pay.
I use to think you were correct when stating we are doing things your title was and should still be doing. But with an attitude like yours, I may
just have to rethink that and start thinking like you and hope we get more of your work to further solidify our titles job security.

 

[telebender1956]

This lowering of the standards for A&P has been at AA/TWU for a long time. Marion Findlay outsourced the AMT jobs IN-HOUSE in 1995 when he dreamed up the SRP Program. Jobs which had been performed by A & P's for 40 years were now being performed by SRP's. These were good shop jobs for older A & P's to finish out their careers that had already done 20 + years in the hangars that were traded away for 5&5 plan.Sold Out once again by the TWU. Just take a look at the last Contract Proposal that was rejected and one could see that the TWU does not place any extra value on the A & P. We at TULE were only getting less that $1.00/HR increase while other work groups were getting several dollars per hour increases.
AA/TWU Working Together is on a fast tract to make TULE a Repair Station only and no need for A&P'S because everyone working under a Crew Chief- Supervisor- Inspector with A & P will be covered under the Repair Station Certificate.
Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas!

 

[787nightmare]

This lowering of the standards for A&P has been at AA/TWU for a long time. Marion Findlay outsourced the AMT jobs IN-HOUSE in 1995 when he dreamed up the SRP Program. Jobs which had been performed by A & P's for 40 years were now being performed by SRP's. These were good shop jobs for older A & P's to finish out their careers that had already done 20 + years in the hangars that were traded away for 5&5 plan.Sold Out once again by the TWU. Just take a look at the last Contract Proposal that was rejected and one could see that the TWU does not place any extra value on the A & P. We at TULE were only getting less that $1.00/HR increase while other work groups were getting several dollars per hour increases.
AA/TWU Working Together is on a fast tract to make TULE a Repair Station only and no need for A&P'S because everyone working under a Crew Chief- Supervisor- Inspector with A & P will be covered under the Repair Station Certificate.
Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas!

Finally, thank you.

All of which highlights the chief reason the TWU doesn't want to lose the AMTs at all costs.
They'll be on there own at the mercy of American then...