More Hawaiian Competition Shuts Down

[hp_fa]

Between the Aloha and ATA bankruptcies it is obvious that some airline needs to step in and increase Hawaii traffic. However, from a consumer viewpoint I hope it isn't US. Why? Because in each market they are flying out of PHX they tend to be higher priced, very often significantly. My last three trips domestically I have flown UA and AS because US wasn't even close in fares to the point (hundreds of dollars) that I chose connections via nonstops.

I'll admit that I never fully understood the justification for the nonstop "premium". Logically, it costs more to travel via connections because there is less fuel usage (both because there is only one climb to altitude and because the travel path will be straighter), less baggage handling, less needs for CSR's (originating and destination as oppossed to one or more mid-point set of CSR's), etc. I understand that business people prefer nonstops because it is supposed to save time, but US seems to be operating in a manner that drives the business customer business away.

Just my .02 worth.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Two large carriers just went bankrupt n this market. Why does anyone think that this is a GOOD place to sink limited resources such as widebody jets? Are we lemmings jumping off a cliff? I hope we have better market analysis than what I'm reading here!

 

[aredeeyou22]

Between the Aloha and ATA bankruptcies it is obvious that some airline needs to step in and increase Hawaii traffic.

No they don't. They need to let the market work, and let the fares become higher to cover the cost of actually operating the trip.

Imagine! Fares that allow an airline to be profitable! :blink:

 

[hp_fa]

It is the airlines responsibility to charge an appropriate fare that compensates them for the service offered. I view your suggestion as possibly being monopolistic and that isn't going to work. Why? The entire tourism industry in Hawaii needs sufficient seats to be available to their customers or else hotels, timeshare operators, condo owners, tour operators, and all the rest of the tourism infrastructure will suffer a significant loss of business. Oh, and don't forget business folks and residents of the islands who need transportation to and from the islands.

 

[fr8tmastr]

US would never get any of these 757's. Firstly the 757 can go across the country without any problems, second, the 757 is universally accredited with being one of the finest airliners ever built. For those two reasons alone, US would not get these AC. Now if some 321's come available with drop tanks to increase the range, and JATO pods for the climb. Doug would be on it faster than 2fer night at the local pub. Remember its "airbus at all costs"!

I would love to be proven wrong however.

 

[aredeeyou22]

It is the airlines responsibility to charge an appropriate fare that compensates them for the service offered.

So why are all airlines complaining that domestic flying is unprofitable due to over capacity in the USA? If what you say is true, why don't airlines simply raise the fares?

 

[cynic]

So why are all airlines complaining that domestic flying is unprofitable due to over capacity in the USA? If what you say is true, why don't airlines simply raise the fares?

Not everyone will raise their fares and some will continue to lose money doing so, see Go! airlines as a perfect example of this. If every airline suddenly raised prices to cover the actual costs, congress would be screaming about collusion and begin investigations.

 

[jtwhat]

Typical You people are worst than vultures. Stop worrying about aircraft routes and be happy you still have a job. Some of our comrades cant say the same.

 

[ual777fan]

US would never get any of these 757's. Firstly the 757 can go across the country without any problems, second, the 757 is universally accredited with being one of the finest airliners ever built. For those two reasons alone, US would not get these AC. Now if some 321's come available with drop tanks to increase the range, and JATO pods for the climb. Doug would be on it faster than 2fer night at the local pub. Remember its "airbus at all costs"!

I would love to be proven wrong however.

That and were arguing over whether or not AA should spring for them on the other board... The skyNAAzis (and their haggle of FF hags) call dibbs

 

[320tech]

ATA currently has:
6: 757-200
4: 757-300

your numbers are off alittle they have 5 757-300 parked in PHX right now!

Today we sent our spare etops plane from PHX empty to HNL to pick up all those stranded people and my guess we will do it again through the weekend flying extra sections with all our etops a/c.

sorry I am wrong, the numbers are correct but there are 5 ata 757's parked in Phx and doing some checking the oldest plane of the 757 fleet was built in 1995 and the newest was in 2003.

 

[DHG750R]

your numbers are off alittle they have 5 757-300 parked in PHX right now!

Today we sent our spare etops plane from PHX empty to HNL to pick up all those stranded people and my guess we will do it again through the weekend flying extra sections with all our etops a/c.

8. The Debtor’s principal assets include a fleet of 32 owned and/or leased aircraft.
These aircraft include 12 Boeing 737-800, six Boeing 757-200, four Boeing 757-300, four
Lockheed L-1011-500, and six McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30.5 Of these aircraft, 29 are still
operational and are listed on the Debtor’s operating certificate, one L-1011 is currently in
storage, and two of the DC-10-30s are on ramp at a maintenance facility.

According to the BK filing , they in fact only show 4 757-300's

 

[cynic]

your numbers are off alittle they have 5 757-300 parked in PHX right now!

Today we sent our spare etops plane from PHX empty to HNL to pick up all those stranded people and my guess we will do it again through the weekend flying extra sections with all our etops a/c.

What aircraft are they missing?
http://airfleets.net/flottecie/ATA%20Airli...active-b757.htm

 

[700UW]

ATA Fleet

The numbers I posted were for active aircraft, they had two stored and not flying.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

That and were arguing over whether or not AA should spring for them on the other board... The skyNAAzis (and their haggle of FF hags) call dibbs

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ual777,

(skyNAAzis)...........Now that wasn't NICE.... ,

You CAN "bet the farm", that if those 757-2/3's/737-800's are same engine type, and by acquiring "them" would allow AA to park say 20 s/80's,.................that NO ONE will outbid AA !

(Not bragging, just saying that................It IS what it IS ) !!

 

[Dorf]

Of course, there is always the possibility that nobody will get their aircraft except the other two companies that they own....

"The April 3 announcement that ATA is ceasing operations is two days shy of the first anniversary of ATA’s announcement that its holding company was buying World Airways and North American Airlines. On April 5, 2007, ATA Holdings changed its name to Global Aero Logistics (GAL) and, in August 2007 completed the transaction that gave it three airlines: ATA, World, and North American. GAL is privately held by the hedge fund MatlinPatterson Global Opportunities Partners II.

Staples said the union’s top priority is making sure that all 585 ATA pilots and flight engineers find new jobs, especially since part of ATA’s fleet has been transferred to World Airways and more airplanes could go to World and North American later."

Dorf