" Nero Fiddle's, While Rome Burns"

[The Drunken Duck]

Blanco asked for federal help before the storm hit, cause no local infrastructure can handle this sort of event. Thats why we have FEMA and DHS etc. FEMA or DHS had no plan in place for what FEMA said years ago would be the worst natural disater risk in the US.

[post="296558"][/post]​

And the US classified Louisiana a disaster area BEFORE the storm hit. Something I can't recall occuring before. But we still don't know what she asked for nor if it was feasible to provide. It is concievable that she was given exactly what she asked for.

I cannot recall a scenario where the infrastructure collapsed to the degree it did in New Orleans. Nor can I recall a scenario where the infrastructure collapsed AFTER the initial assualt. California's SF earthquake took out some roads, but not all or even a majority.

But, the point remains, regardless of the states ability to handle a disaster...it still retains primary responsibility. Regardless of how incompetent they are. Now, a legitimate point can be made that the Federal government should manage this...but then we could just see FEMA completing evacuating New Orleans every other month during hurricane season.

Not sure we should build in the Mississippi delta, nor do I think we should build on the side of Mount St. Helens. Both are unlikely to be destroyed again. But...they could and not sure you can ever make a cost/benefit analysis work.

 

[sentrido]

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

Check the date, Duck. And if you wanna stop being a Bush apologist and look around the "internet" a bit, you will find that DHS DID have a plan for this sort of thing. They just didnt know it. <_<

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf

Make sure you read the part about "Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response". It seems nobody in charge at FEMA, DHL, or CRAWFORD did.

 

[sentrido]

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2005/09/...old-you-so.html

 

[Bob Owens]

Maybe we would have been better under Gore or Kerry, but we definetly would have been better under McCain.

[post="296187"][/post]​

Not if you are an airline worker.

McCains SR-1327 was about the most anti-labor bill ever proposed. It would have taken away our ability to have collective bargainig and capped our wages based upon those that the least profitable airline in the industry could afford. Even if the industry was wildly profitable it had something limiting our increases to inflation. So in the bad times our wages would be ratcheted down and in the good times we could only get increases that equaled inflation.

If McCains bill had become law the owners of the airline industry (large institutions) would have no incentive to ever be profitable, instead since most of the industry is owned by large institutions the revenue would be funneled to other entities, pretty much what has been going on the last couple of years. McCains bill would have prevented us from EVER striking for increased wages.

At least under the current law, if we ever shake off these incompetant unions and form or join better ones we can fight to get back what we lost. McCains bill would remove that possibility.

 

[Bob Owens]

I don't know if you have ever been to New Orleans or not but it is a sad, filthy city. I have never heard any thing good about that city. I think the good Lord decided to clean house.

[post="296431"][/post]​

Funny but I recall the Holy Hippocrits saying pretty much the same thing after 9-11. That the Lord was allowed it to happen because, according to them, there are a lot of Jews and Homosexuals in NYC.

Its not suprising to see the same response this time around again, I doubt many true Christians agreed with you then, or now.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

Check the date, Duck. And if you wanna stop being a Bush apologist and look around the "internet" a bit, you will find that DHS DID have a plan for this sort of thing. They just didnt know it. <_<

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf

Make sure you read the part about "Guiding Principles for Proactive Federal Response". It seems nobody in charge at FEMA, DHL, or CRAWFORD did.

[post="296573"][/post]​

Thanks for the links. I think they reinforce my point. Especially the sections detailing roles and responsibilities. The date on the order from FEMA confirms the fact that the administration responded to FEMA requests.

A more interesting question is a, why are all these school buses flooded, when they could have been used to evacuate people without cars? and what about all the regular buses that are flooded in lots?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4216508.stm

What about this?
http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/in...ylist=louisiana
Why didn't Blanco or the Mayor evacuate people?

You seem to have latched on to the idea that I am a Bush apologist. Which highlights your political bias. I think the administration screwed up if it is accurate that they never developed a scenario that envisaged the levees breaking during a class 4/5. Which is what Chertoff seems to imply in some news interviews. I find that hard to beleieve. [Nevertheless, I doubt that even if they had scenarioed this, that they would have responded any better. Looting began BEFORE the levees broke and I am not sure people behaved in a manner anyone would have expected. The convention center appears to have been an adhoc gathering point.
decision.

In all, your two references only confirm my viewpoint.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

Funny but I recall the Holy Hippocrits saying pretty much the same thing after 9-11. That the Lord was allowed it to happen because, according to them, there are a lot of Jews and Homosexuals in NYC.

Its not suprising to see the same response this time around again, I doubt many true Christians agreed with you then, or now.

[post="296798"][/post]​

I think New Orleans was/is a great city. Had a blast at Pat O's, but to pretend it isn't dirty and grimy is just being blind for the sake of political correctness. The place is a bit weird and has a seedy side. And that's just the politicians and cops. When I lived their , the governor was brought up charges, a couple of cops where charged with running a criminal racket ....

 

[sentrido]

Please articluate your "points" and show me exactly what in the links i provided support them. From your responce I doubt you read them.

Now eat on this:
Boustany three days ago:

Rep. Charles W. Boustany Jr., (R-La.), said he spent the past 48 hours urging the Bush administration to send help. "I started making calls and trying to impress upon the White House and others that something needed to be done," he said. "The state resources were being overwhelmed, and we needed direct federal assistance, command and control, and security -- all three of which are lacking."

Boustany today:
BOUSTANY: Most of the red tape and problems have been at the state level. I have to say that the federal response has been focused on New Orleans with search and rescue operations which is going very, very well at this stage. But we've had a completely ineffectual state response and this is being borne by the local communities to help now. and I have asked the president to take this into consideration, consider that the state response is completely ineffectual and the full range of social and health care needs needs to be met.

Ges Rove got to him?


Or this:
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/wp-print.php?p=5167

sure, they coulda put them on barges to for all I care. Send your money to the "dont vote for democrats in LA any more" if you got a problem with that. This was bigger than some little "parish" or whatever the hell they call em down there. This is what great leaders are for, and ours was on vacation.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

Please articluate your "points" and show me exactly what in the links i provided support them. From your responce I doubt you read them.

[post="296865"][/post]​

Listen, if you want me to educate you, I don't have time. And more importantly, you don't care. If you actually read the document, you would get it.

Rep. Charles W. Boustany Jr., (R-La.), said he spent the past 48 hours urging the Bush administration to send help. "I started making calls and trying to impress upon the White House and others that something needed to be done," he said. "The state resources were being overwhelmed, and we needed direct federal assistance, command and control, and security -- all three of which are lacking."

Boustany today:
BOUSTANY: Most of the red tape and problems have been at the state level. I have to say that the federal response has been focused on New Orleans with search and rescue operations which is going very, very well at this stage. But we've had a completely ineffectual state response and this is being borne by the local communities to help now. and I have asked the president to take this into consideration, consider that the state response is completely ineffectual and the full range of social and health care needs needs to be met.

[post="296865"][/post]​

Rep. Charles W. Boustany Jr., (R-La.), said he spent the past 48 hours urging the Bush administration to send help. "I started making calls and trying to impress upon the White House and others that something needed to be done," he said. "The state resources were being overwhelmed, and we needed direct federal assistance, command and control, and security -- all three of which are lacking."

Boustany today:
BOUSTANY: Most of the red tape and problems have been at the state level. I have to say that the federal response has been focused on New Orleans with search and rescue operations which is going very, very well at this stage. But we've had a completely ineffectual state response and this is being borne by the local communities to help now. and I have asked the president to take this into consideration, consider that the state response is completely ineffectual and the full range of social and health care needs needs to be met.

[post="296865"][/post]​

A completely meaningless citation.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/wp-print.php?p=5167

[post="296865"][/post]​

What's the point? Some Lt. feels pressure, decides to make up and excuse and selectively edits the chain of command. If Northcom needs clarification on orders, THEY DON"T GO TO THE WHITEHOUSE, they go to the chain of command which is not the White House. If every command had to get tasked directly from the President, then we have a problem. Again, your citation is meaningless.

sure, they coulda put them on barges to for all I care. Send your money to the "dont vote for democrats in LA any more" if you got a problem with that. This was bigger than some little "parish" or whatever the hell they call em down there. This is what great leaders are for, and ours was on vacation.

[post="296865"][/post]​

All in all, your posts highlights your bias. You fail to even acknowledge that the Mayor of Lousiana had 250 school buses seating in a garage and failed to use them for the evacuation. They could have cairred 10,000 people out of town and not one was used. You don't answer why the Governor is MIA and failed to call for a mandatory evacuation. The story is probably a bit too complicated for a one-dimensional analysis you are using.

 

[sentrido]

Nice dodge. your good enough to wast your time posting on here but too good to "educate". I DID acknowledge the busses, and added that maybe barges, which the whole existence of the city is based on, would have been a good idea too. I'm calling you out, you asked me to back up my point of view, now back up yours.

As for "bias", are the only people in america who are allowed to express an opinion now only people without an opinion?

 

[NWA/AMT]

You fail to even acknowledge that the Mayor of Lousiana had 250 school buses seating in a garage and failed to use them for the evacuation. They could have cairred 10,000 people out of town and not one was used.

[post="296879"][/post]​

The Governor of Louisiana is not empowered to personally license bus drivers and does not have actual control of the aviation and other assets that her National Guard units have been assigned, an issue that has been confirmed again and again during the recent debate on base closings.

One of the effects of the Feds declaring LA a disaster area prior to impact was that FEMA becomes responsible for coordinating action, yet every report to date shows that FEMA was more interested in bureaucratic turf issues than responding to the crisis. Three tankers full of drinking water sent by the LA National Guard units in northern LA turned back as unnecessary by FEMA bureaucrats while people went thirsty, food and medical assistance from the Red Cross turned away, et cetera, et cetera.

For generations FEMA managers have been people trained and experienced in disaster response, but now that FEMA is under DHS that is no longer true. If I were going to blame Bush for any action in regard to Katrina, it would be that decision. FEMA was responsible, FEMA should be accountable.

 

[sentrido]

Aaron Broussard from New Orleans:

Let me give you just three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel." Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines." Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America--American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis.

 

[sentrido]

President Bush, in keeping with the Stafford Act, issued a declaration of a State of Emergecy on 28 August 2005:

President Bush has declared a state of emergency for the Gulf Coast state of Louisiana, as it braces for the expected onslaught of Hurricane Katrina, set to make landfall on Monday.

Saturday's emergency declaration authorizes federal officials to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and provide appropriate assistance in several Louisiana parishes.

Hours earlier, Louisiana and neighboring Mississippi declared their own states of emergency in preparation for the storm, and evacuations of low-lying areas began.



Saturday's emergency declaration authorizes federal officials to coordinate all disaster relief efforts

Saturday's emergency declaration authorizes federal officials to coordinate all disaster relief efforts

Saturday's emergency declaration authorizes federal officials to coordinate all disaster relief efforts

Saturday's emergency declaration authorizes federal officials to coordinate all disaster relief efforts

Is that enough BIAS for ya

 

[eolesen]

Saturday's emergency declaration authorizes federal officials to coordinate all disaster relief efforts

[post="296972"][/post]​

I'm not about to defend FEMA, because they've failed miserably, but the fact still remains that Gov. Blank-O was a huge obstacle, and unfortunately, you can't simply move federal troops into a state against the governor's wishes without violating the Posse Comitatus Act.

Blank-o wanted to retain control over the National Guard to serve in a law enforcement role, where the feds wanted to use the National Guard in a search/rescue role.

Had she stepped aside and let the Guard serve in their search/rescue/assist role a few days earlier, I don't think that it would gotten nearly as out of control at the Superdome or Convention Center.

Instead, it looks like Bush may have invoked an even less known piece of law called the Insurrection Act.



From ChronWatch.Com:

Was President Bush Forced to Use the Insurrection Act?
Written by Barbara J. Stock
Tuesday, September 06, 2005



Hurricanes do not sneak up on people. Unlike tornadoes, hurricanes don’t just reach down out of the dark storm clouds to wreak havoc on humanity. Hurricanes are tracked, named, have warning flags dedicated to them, and all coastal cities have long-standing plans for dealing with them. Nearly everyone in the world knew Katrina was going to hit Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, and yet so many have died in New Orleans. Why?



Hurricane Katrina struck the tip of southern Florida as a category 1 hurricane and made a beeline for the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico. For three days Katrina churned her way across the Gulf, growing in size and strength until it was a monster storm. With sustained winds of over 175 mph, Katrina bore down on the city of New Orleans. Literally, at the last possible moment, Katrina was pushed, ever-so-slightly, by dry air from the Midwest, off to the East and dropped from a category 5 to a high category 4 with sustained winds of 150 mph. Katrina was still a killer storm by anyone’s description. For three long days, the governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans watched Katrina bear down on their state and city respectively but took very little action to protect their citizens other than to state the obvious: “Leave town.†No assistance was offered to the poor or elderly.



Aerial views of New Orleans have shown pictures of hundreds of buses, left parked and unused. Why didn’t the mayor of New Orleans activate those buses to move the people out of the city those who wanted to leave but had no way out? Why was this golden opportunity to save lives left parked, only to be lost to the floodwaters? This from the Louisiana disaster plan, pg. 13, paragraph 5, dated 01/00: “The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...†Why was the city’s own disaster plan for using those buses to evacuate people not implemented? Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin had three days to evacuate the poor and elderly from New Orleans but they did not. Why?



While the governors of both Mississippi and Alabama put in a formal request for federal assistance before Katrina even made landfall, the governor of Louisiana refused to relinquish any of her power for the good of the people. Now she and her party point the finger of blame at the White House.



Liberal blogs and websites are pointing to the Department of Homeland Security’s website which states that it can take control in any disaster, natural or otherwise, but this is not true. The Department of Homeland Security can only work with the state and local officials in organizing relief efforts such as food, water, and shelter. There is no military arm of the Department of Homeland Security or the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and the military is what was needed and everyone knew that.



Instead of asking why the Democratic leaders of Louisiana failed the people, these sites post disgusting pictures of floating bodies with the message: “George Bush did nothing.†The truth is, the Democratic governor wouldn’t allow Bush to do anything. That floating body belongs to Governor Blanco. She is the one who “did nothing.â€



Roving bands of violent criminals quickly took control of the streets. While Mayor Nagin did declare martial law, it was a toothless declaration. The New Orleans police department was instantly overwhelmed. Many policemen just threw up their hands and walked off the job. Some joined the looters and were videotaped by MSNBC “shopping†in the local Walmart. The handful that was left on the job did their best but the best they could do was try to stay alive in a now lawless and dying city.



Because there was no one in charge, the initial rescue operations were feeble at best and there was chaos. The scope and magnitude of the disaster, which covers an area the size of Great Britain, still had not been realized by Governor Blanco who steadfastly refused to declare martial law and officially request that the federal government “send in the troops.â€



It has come to light that all during the night on Friday, September 2, the president of the United States was forced to “negotiate†with Governor Blanco for the lives of the suffering and dying people of New Orleans. She feared that allowing the federal government to take control would make her administration appear as though it had failed. How she would be judged was more important to her than the lives of those people who were dying in the squalor. How many died as Blanco maneuvered to protect her reputation?



The Posse Comitatus Act prevents, by federal law, the president of the United States from sending federal troops into any state without the direct request of the elected governor of that state. A frustrated President Bush could only stand by and watch as the horror unfolded until he received the request for help. Despite the finger-pointing at President Bush, there was little that he could do until he was formally asked for assistance. No matter how loudly the liberals scream, they know full well that the president was helpless to do much of anything.



As the death toll rose and the animalistic behavior of some of those who chose to remain within the city became public knowledge, it was obvious that authorities needed to regain control. As the scenes from New Orleans, now a national disgrace, were being beamed around the world, a shameless Governor Blanco only cared about her own political image.



There is reason to believe that President Bush, running out of patience with Blanco by Saturday morning, used the only option that remained to him. It is being reported that Bush went around Blanco and utilized the Insurrection Act to federalize the National Guard and send in active military troops to take over the rescue and put down the lawlessness that had taken over New Orleans. The forces that Bush had poised to move into the city, swung into action. It was no accident that the major, organized rescues began when the sun came up on Saturday morning. At 6:30 AM, when the sky over New Orleans was suddenly filled with military helicopters and military convoys poured into the streets, they were there because of President Bush, not Governor Blanco.



The largest military evacuation the world has ever seen moved with the precision and efficiency that is only seen within the military. With men like Lt. General Russel Honore, 1st Army Commander and Army Brigadier General Mark Graham in charge, law and order was quickly restored, and an endless line of helicopters and boats began removing the stranded people and taking them out of the hell-hole called New Orleans. Those forces were ready to act because the President of the United States had positioned them to be ready.



Everyone demands answers and everyone wants to put the blame for this catastrophe on someone. The most convenient person to blame is President Bush. In truth, he is the least responsible on the local level. While the liberals feel this is the perfect time to make political hay because so many African-Americans are involved, the first line of defense for those people, the mayor of New Orleans, and governor of Louisiana, both Democrats, are the leaders that failed them. The people of New Orleans were abandoned by an arrogant governor and a hapless mayor as both struggled to save their own political careers. But, because they are both Democrats, the leftists want these ineffective leaders seen as helpless victims of a thoughtless and racist Bush who ignored their repeated pleas for help.



Mayor Nagin has been reduced to babbling about how the CIA is out to kill him because he “spoke his mind,†and Governor Blanco has become the invisible woman hoping that no one will notice that her gross incompetence and arrogance cost lives. But the left marches on, blaming President Bush because it knows it can. Most Americans are not aware of the laws preventing the federal government from “taking over†a city or a state.



The Democrats have closed ranks around their incompetent members and blame the president who was forced to “deal†with an inept governor. Governor Blanco’s thanks is to point the finger of blame back at the president when she knows the fault is her own.



The Democratic Party could not possibly sink much lower than it has this past week. The mayor, the governor, and all those liberal websites, blogs, and shrieking leftist politicians should jump into the sewer water that now flows in the streets of New Orleans. That’s where they belong, with the rest of the floating waste. The Democratic or “Progressive†Party should be buried with the dead. Cause of death: Gross incompetence, asphyxiation from lies, and the failure to accept responsibility for the deaths of thousands of American citizens because power meant more to them than lives.

About the Writer: Barbara J. Stock is a registered nurse who enjoys writing about politics and current events. She has a website at http://www.republicanandproud.com/. Barbara J. receives e-mail at [email protected].

 

[TWAnr]

From ChronWatch.Com:

About the Writer: Barbara J. Stock is a registered nurse who enjoys writing about politics and current events. She has a website at http://www.republicanandproud.com/. Barbara J. receives e-mail at [email protected].

[post="297023"][/post]​

Her website is called Republican and Proud. She is not exactly an objective non-partisan commentator.