Now that the merger "deal" is closed...

[North by Northwest]

Forecast of what's to come IF there is a NON UNION Delta after Union elections...You have "Delta/NW" word on it...

So now that the merger is complete, the truth can finally start coming out:

Delta Air Lines plans to cut 12 percent of its flying out of the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport in January, but says it is restructuring the hub here to make it more profitable and therefore sustainable though at least next year.

Glen Hauenstein, Delta's executive vice president charged with meshing Delta's network with that of its new merger acquisition Northwest Airlines, said in an interview that the airline is committed to keeping a hub here through at least 2009.

"We really wanted to keep the hub there because of its location, layout and the great facilities, but it took us awhile to figure out how to do it," Hauenstein said. "So Delta is now reaffirming its commitment to the Cincinnati hub through the summer season of next year and then we'll take another barometer reading on how the economy is doing."

Full story: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081111/BIZ01/811120350

 

[DLSam]

Forecast of what's to come IF there is a NON UNION Delta after Union elections...You have "Delta/NW" word on it...

So now that the merger is complete, the truth can finally start coming out:

Delta Air Lines plans to cut 12 percent of its flying out of the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport in January, but says it is restructuring the hub here to make it more profitable and therefore sustainable though at least next year.

Glen Hauenstein, Delta's executive vice president charged with meshing Delta's network with that of its new merger acquisition Northwest Airlines, said in an interview that the airline is committed to keeping a hub here through at least 2009.

"We really wanted to keep the hub there because of its location, layout and the great facilities, but it took us awhile to figure out how to do it," Hauenstein said. "So Delta is now reaffirming its commitment to the Cincinnati hub through the summer season of next year and then we'll take another barometer reading on how the economy is doing."

Full story: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081111/BIZ01/811120350

Ok...I"ll bite!

Exactly how would having a union stop any potential base or hub closings? I had no idea that unions had that much say in how Delta/NW runs its business model.

As someone who is a CVG based employee I can say that the above article implications fall under "hope it doesn't happen, but not surprised if it does". We've been living with potential base/hub closing rumors for years.

 

[North by Northwest]

Ok...I"ll bite!

Exactly how would having a union stop any potential base or hub closings? I had no idea that unions had that much say in how Delta/NW runs its business model.

As someone who is a CVG based employee I can say that the above article implications fall under "hope it doesn't happen, but not surprised if it does". We've been living with potential base/hub closing rumors for years.

My point Sam was that it is FAR easier to show non union employees the bricks than it is union employees. They have the power to close a HUB with or with out a Union. I was pointing out the vast difference in what they say when they WANT something (merger approval), vs. what they MEAN after they get what they want. As in before and election and AFTER a union election.

I hope I am WRONG and just reading to much between the lines...a bad habit from years of working with our current Delta/NW leaders. You learn to read like a lawyer.

Best to all CVG employees.

 

[wings396]

The difference in the case that the CVG hub gets chopped, is how the employees are handled if they are Union or not. If they are unionized they will have bumping and recall rights to another station based on their seniority. Without a Union they will most likely be given a list of where the comapny could use them.

 

[Kev3188]

Ok...I"ll bite!

Exactly how would having a union stop any potential base or hub closings? I had no idea that unions had that much say in how Delta/NW runs its business model.

See below... Bumping/severance/recall rights are a very important asset of a collective bargaining agreement.

The difference in the case that the CVG hub gets chopped, is how the employees are handled if they are Union or not. If they are unionized they will have bumping and recall rights to another station based on their seniority. Without a Union they will most likely be given a list of where the comapny could use them.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Kev,

You would think that the CVG people, knowing full well that CVG would quite obviously be the first hub to "GO", (same as perhaps MEM) that the CVG people would be hoping for an oppertunity to get unionized.."Yesterday" !!

 

[DalMD88]

There is no shock that CVG is being downsized. Next year I bet they will close the hub and become a focus city.

So how would unions effect this? Before you bring out the big guns, I'm pro union. I like having a contract that lays out all the what ifs. I'm also a realist. The majority of the work groups at the combined DL/NW will not be union. My workgroup, AMT's have no chance of a union at this time.

So, back to what would a union bring? We all agree they can't stop a hub closure. They would dictate who goes where. During the last AMT layoff we had bump rights. Very few AMT's moved. Those that did took slots form AMT's that had requested to furlough. I know that here in BOS we had AMT's that wanted to furlough but were not released because they didn't get bumped.

Will the same rules apply when CVG is downgraded? I don't know. There are no contracts that spell it out. I do think it will be the same. I really think it doesn't matter much. How many of the CVG crew are going to pull up and move for this company? Sure the pilots and many of the infight will commute. But come on, I doubt we will see many CSA, Ramp, or AMT's move. They live there. That is home. Most will not uproot family to chase a job in this industry. They are beyond that.

We have shown on this site that we can argue the crap out of the pro/anti union thing. Let's be honest here. How many ground employees will move if this company asks them to? My family has spoken. We will move back to ATL and that is it. We wish to live there until retirement age and maybe after.

 

[North by Northwest]

If Cincy is dinner...MEM is desert. They were after DTW, MSP, NRT....plain and simple. Tokyo is the biggest gold mine on the planet. Pare that with the biggest richest route structure in the US (New Delta)....global power house. Europe is yesterday's news.

 

[Dignity]

If Cincy is dinner...MEM is desert.

ATL needs a reliever airport, DTW does not. They simply could utilize slots and shift some domestic to MEM for "domestic" connections(freeing up ATL to add more International). DTW could absorb both or most of CVG operations(as there is excess capacity) but it wouldnt make a lot of sense to overfly CVG(from a spoke relatively close to CVG) to make a domestic connection. I tend to think the keyword here would be "balance" the hubs.

 

[Delta Technician]

There is no shock that CVG is being downsized. Next year I bet they will close the hub and become a focus city.

So how would unions effect this? Before you bring out the big guns, I'm pro union. I like having a contract that lays out all the what ifs. I'm also a realist. The majority of the work groups at the combined DL/NW will not be union. My workgroup, AMT's have no chance of a union at this time.

So, back to what would a union bring? We all agree they can't stop a hub closure. They would dictate who goes where. During the last AMT layoff we had bump rights. Very few AMT's moved. Those that did took slots form AMT's that had requested to furlough. I know that here in BOS we had AMT's that wanted to furlough but were not released because they didn't get bumped.

Will the same rules apply when CVG is downgraded? I don't know. There are no contracts that spell it out. I do think it will be the same. I really think it doesn't matter much. How many of the CVG crew are going to pull up and move for this company? Sure the pilots and many of the infight will commute. But come on, I doubt we will see many CSA, Ramp, or AMT's move. They live there. That is home. Most will not uproot family to chase a job in this industry. They are beyond that.

We have shown on this site that we can argue the crap out of the pro/anti union thing. Let's be honest here. How many ground employees will move if this company asks them to? My family has spoken. We will move back to ATL and that is it. We wish to live there until retirement age and maybe after.

Very well put MD. Finally an educated pro-union retort. I will have to humble myself and say that the bumping rights issue is the only issue that makes me think maybe a union is right for my group. If I had to guess I would say that most at CVG would not elect to bump because they are deeply rooted there but shouldn't the choice be there?

 

[luv2fly]

I am hearing that the downsizing of CVG is all Comair at this time. Could be bad intel, but if that is true, I can't say that I am too upset.

 

[tech2101]

Very well put MD. Finally an educated pro-union retort. I will have to humble myself and say that the bumping rights issue is the only issue that makes me think maybe a union is right for my group. If I had to guess I would say that most at CVG would not elect to bump because they are deeply rooted there but shouldn't the choice be there?

Yes, it should. That is an invaluable option. Many of us used the bumping option to exercise our seniority and commute while looking for other work in our home location, without having to resort to unemployment, etc...

But come on, I doubt we will see many CSA, Ramp, or AMT's move. They live there. That is home. Most will not uproot family to chase a job in this industry. They are beyond that.

With the economy the way it is now, it may be better to bump, and keep your job until things improve. It may be an extreme hardship, but the other options are not much better.

It is always easier to find a job when you still have one. The biggest benefit in any union contract is the scope clause, then the seniority/layoff protection. Of course, it always helps to have the benefits and wages/compensation in writing.

 

[Delta Technician]

I am hearing that the downsizing of CVG is all Comair at this time. Could be bad intel, but if that is true, I can't say that I am to upset.

You are correct luv. There are those who start threads without the patience to let a company correct the press. In this case it was a pro-union person who jumped the gun. Imagine that.

 

[Kev3188]

Yes, it should. That is an invaluable option. Many of us used the bumping option to exercise our seniority and commute while looking for other work in our home location, without having to resort to unemployment, etc...



With the economy the way it is now, it may be better to bump, and keep your job until things improve. It may be an extreme hardship, but the other options are not much better.

It is always easier to find a job when you still have one. The biggest benefit in any union contract is the scope clause, then the seniority/layoff protection. Of course, it always helps to have the benefits and wages/compensation in writing.

Well put. Thank you.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Kev,

Let me run this by you.

Lets assume that the CVG/MEM "thing" plays out(as both being new DL "Mainline" employees")

CVG non union guys, I'm guessing, who are thrown out into the street, would be less likely to "come back" to cast ANY kind of a vote come representational time, and thats assuming that they even were allowed to.

But,

An IAM (MEM) guy, who took the street, is still an IAM guy eligible to vote, and most likely would stay interested in a representational election, with a YES vote.

If my theory is correct, that would HELP the cause/numbers game

???