Nwa Wants Chapter 11

[FWAAA]

Ok, correct me if I am wrong......

NWA is the only carrier that holds 5th Freedom Rights.
(aside from UAL who purchased it from PAN Am with pacific route)
The difference is that with NWA, it is branded to the Name.
And if the NWA Brand name ceases, so do the 5th F.R.

So a merger/acquisition with DL, or anyone, would require the NWA name to be dominant.
SN

[post="286163"][/post]​

I won't assert that you are wrong, but could you point to any law, treaty, rule or anything else that supports your contention?

 

[NuGuy]

I won't assert that you are wrong, but could you point to any law, treaty, rule or anything else that supports your contention?

[post="286322"][/post]​

This is actually true. You would have to go back to agreements with Japan signed back in the late 1940's.

Management has said several times that the 5th freedom rights are tied to the NWA "corporate entity".

Also, many of the cargo rights are intertwined with the passenger rights, making them VERY difficult to divest economically.

Nu

 

[peasant]

My understanding is that Japan MOT wasn't happy with the selling of PA route authority to UA. So in subsequent negotiations, they insisted that 5th freedom rights be tied to entity, rather than "marketable"

Me, I would ripped up the whole treaty 20 years ago and start again - like the Germans did in early 90's. The Japan/US and W German/ US bilaterals were/ are just silly - written at a time when both countries were under US military occupation...

 

[eolesen]

My understanding is that Japan MOT wasn't happy with the selling of PA route authority to UA. So in subsequent negotiations, they insisted that 5th freedom rights be tied to entity, rather than "marketable"

That's my recollection as well.

All said, with aircraft like the 777 and the 787, the value of the NRT fifth freedom rights is somewhat diminished from 15 years ago. Plus, all any acquirer would need to do is pull a TX/CO or a HP/US, and leave NWA as the corporate successor.

 

[Saturdaynite]

That's my recollection as well.

All said, with aircraft like the 777 and the 787, the value of the NRT fifth freedom rights is somewhat diminished from 15 years ago. Plus, all any acquirer would need to do is pull a TX/CO or a HP/US, and leave NWA as the corporate successor.

(Former)Moderater,
Why do you feel that the value has diminished ? Point to Point flying ?
5thF. deals with Interport.
NWA sent in the Buses, then the 757's........ As they can go where the heavies can not.

BTW, I got my info, regarding the branding of the rights, to the name.. from Hector Adler several years ago.

WT

 

[vanish747]

My understanding is that Japan MOT wasn't happy with the selling of PA route authority to UA. So in subsequent negotiations, they insisted that 5th freedom rights be tied to entity, rather than "marketable"

Me, I would ripped up the whole treaty 20 years ago and start again - like the Germans did in early 90's. The Japan/US and W German/ US bilaterals were/ are just silly - written at a time when both countries were under US military occupation...

[post="286552"][/post]​

At the time of these agreements, both the economies of Japan and Germany were in shambles. Both countries agreed to the agreements to allow airlines that would not otherwise want to fly these nonprofitable routes to come to their areas. Both countries benefited greatly in the following years from these agreements. Japan is the dominate economic power in their region and Gemany in theirs due in no small part to what these agreements brought to them. Now that both are strong economically the need is much less, but lest not make it sound like these agreements wer forced on them during occupation. All parites gained.

 

[NuGuy]

That's my recollection as well.

All said, with aircraft like the 777 and the 787, the value of the NRT fifth freedom rights is somewhat diminished from 15 years ago. Plus, all any acquirer would need to do is pull a TX/CO or a HP/US, and leave NWA as the corporate successor.

[post="286573"][/post]​

I disagree. The value of the 5th freedom rights at NRT goes beyond simply connecting passengers from the US to Asia. It allows NW to collect a tremenous amount of interport Asian traffic, in exactly the same way that any "local" Asian carrier would.

Nu