Official UA/US Possible Merger Thread-Discuss here
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Cosmo
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Perhaps a UA/US merger is not so certain after all. See this Bloomberg article that came out today. It discusses the possibility of a CO/UA alliance, presumably with CO joining Star Alliance, as well as a potential UA/US merger and the "standalone" option.
This situation just keeps getting more and more interesting!
This situation just keeps getting more and more interesting!
USA320Pilot
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AP source: United, Continental in alliance talks
United Airlines and Continental Airlines Inc. are talking about forming an alliance to gain some benefits of working together without going through a merger. United is still pushing ahead with negotiations aimed at a combination with US Airways Group Inc. but would not pursue both deals.
Continental is also still in discussions about an alliance with AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and British Airways, said an official with knowledge of those talks. That person also was not authorized to discuss the matter and requested anonymity.
The official said it would not be unusual for Continental to be considering alternatives, but that the British Airways-Continental-American talks are progressing and don't appear in jeopardy. British Airways publicly disclosed the talks April 30.
Bob Mann, an independent airline consultant based in Port Washington, N.Y., said he doesn't think an alliance between United and Continental is likely because it wouldn't go far enough to solve the carriers' cost and capacity issues.
"The United guys are very much heading in the direction of something that will really allow them to downsize the airline," he said. "We're talking about large capacity cuts. ... The alliance doesn't get to the point where you can really do the capacity-cutting."
See Story
USA320Pilot comments: United's website indicates the company has 55,321 employees and 460 aircraft. US Airways' website indicates the company has 36,000 employees and 355 aircraft. The United employee to aircraft ratio is 120 employees per aircraft and the US Airways employee to aircraft ratio is 101 employees per aircraft.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
United Airlines and Continental Airlines Inc. are talking about forming an alliance to gain some benefits of working together without going through a merger. United is still pushing ahead with negotiations aimed at a combination with US Airways Group Inc. but would not pursue both deals.
Continental is also still in discussions about an alliance with AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and British Airways, said an official with knowledge of those talks. That person also was not authorized to discuss the matter and requested anonymity.
The official said it would not be unusual for Continental to be considering alternatives, but that the British Airways-Continental-American talks are progressing and don't appear in jeopardy. British Airways publicly disclosed the talks April 30.
Bob Mann, an independent airline consultant based in Port Washington, N.Y., said he doesn't think an alliance between United and Continental is likely because it wouldn't go far enough to solve the carriers' cost and capacity issues.
"The United guys are very much heading in the direction of something that will really allow them to downsize the airline," he said. "We're talking about large capacity cuts. ... The alliance doesn't get to the point where you can really do the capacity-cutting."
See Story
USA320Pilot comments: United's website indicates the company has 55,321 employees and 460 aircraft. US Airways' website indicates the company has 36,000 employees and 355 aircraft. The United employee to aircraft ratio is 120 employees per aircraft and the US Airways employee to aircraft ratio is 101 employees per aircraft.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Employee to aircraft ratio is a 'legacy' comparison and means 'diddly' (Sorry mods for my harsh language...
) in our current mess of outsourcing 'everything'!!!Keep your comparisons somewhat logical if possible.
Take Care,
B) UT
Or even "revenue per employee".
UAL:
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2007%20...rlines%2007.htm
USAirways:
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2007%20...irways%2007.htm
note those numbers are thru year end 2006....so may or not be reflective of the current environment. But revenue has gone up quite a bit in 2007/08, while employee cost/headcount has not changed much for UAL. ( 2006=55,117) ( 2007=55,194 )
DC
PS the above data for USairways is for the east operation only, not combined. here is the link for the west.
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2007%20...20West%2007.htm
I agree with most all of the posters here (with the exception of Project Minnow's Main Proponent).
Each of the metrics is sorta useful, but none of them should be viewed in isolation because of the apples and oranges problems.
For example, one really big airline may have more employees/wage expenses per unit (ASM, revenue, airplane, etc) simply because they still perform a majority of their airframe maintenance inhouse. The others might look a little more efficient because their annual spend of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for C and D checks show up not as wages, salaries etc. but instead as outsourced maintenance/purchased services.
Each of the metrics is sorta useful, but none of them should be viewed in isolation because of the apples and oranges problems.
For example, one really big airline may have more employees/wage expenses per unit (ASM, revenue, airplane, etc) simply because they still perform a majority of their airframe maintenance inhouse. The others might look a little more efficient because their annual spend of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for C and D checks show up not as wages, salaries etc. but instead as outsourced maintenance/purchased services.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
United in alliance talks with Continental: sources
United will make a decision on whether to merge with US Airways soon, two people said, adding that a deal with US Airways is likely
See Story
Continental Juggles Other Airlines
Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl says that United would only enter into a partnership with Continental if talks don't pan out with US Airways
See Story
Regards,
USA320Pilot
United will make a decision on whether to merge with US Airways soon, two people said, adding that a deal with US Airways is likely
See Story
Continental Juggles Other Airlines
Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl says that United would only enter into a partnership with Continental if talks don't pan out with US Airways
See Story
Regards,
USA320Pilot
USAirways Pilots Say Too Soon For UA Link Up
Union president Stephen Bradford said Friday that with its mounting losses, Chicago-based UAL may not make the best partner. UAL lost $537 million in the first quarter.
nobody wants United
except of course...
AWA320
Veteran
USAirways Pilots Say Too Soon For UA Link Up[/color][/url]
Union president Stephen Bradford said Friday that with its mounting losses, Chicago-based UAL may not make the best partner. UAL lost $537 million in the first quarter.
nobody wants United except of course...
[/quote]
Bradford DOESNT SPEAK FOR THE WEST PILOTS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. WE DONT HAVE NOT AND WILL NEVER ACCEPT usapa!! UAL, YOU KNOW WHAT usapa is!! If you fall down and skin your knee you get one!!!!
The don't represent us in the west and never will.
MOD NOTE: The inference above STILL violates the rules of the board.....and THIS thread is NOT a union discussion.
Union president Stephen Bradford said Friday that with its mounting losses, Chicago-based UAL may not make the best partner. UAL lost $537 million in the first quarter.
nobody wants United
except of course...[/quote]
Bradford DOESNT SPEAK FOR THE WEST PILOTS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. WE DONT HAVE NOT AND WILL NEVER ACCEPT usapa!! UAL, YOU KNOW WHAT usapa is!! If you fall down and skin your knee you get one!!!!
The don't represent us in the west and never will.
MOD NOTE: The inference above STILL violates the rules of the board.....and THIS thread is NOT a union discussion.
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Richard
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Since the merger APPEARS to be off the table or on the back burner, there is no need to argue or incite trouble on the subject further.
Therefore, as we did on the US Airways forum, we will close this topic UNTIL or UNLESS there are major developments in the alleged merger negotiations.
Therefore, as we did on the US Airways forum, we will close this topic UNTIL or UNLESS there are major developments in the alleged merger negotiations.
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