OIL PRICES (Title Edited by Moderator

[KCFlyer]

At this point, it's a little more complicated than that.
Do you take your $40,000+ auto and sell it for pennies on the dollar?
Then buy a hybrid that no one knows what the future maintenance costs will be? (New batteries/dumping fee/etc...)
Everyone has to calculate their ROI and gamble if fuel will stay over $4.00 a GAL or drop.

It would be interesting to see a risk-cost-benefit analysis on this.

Anyone have a link?

B) UT

No, I didn't take my $40,000+ auto (truck actually) and sell if for pennies on the dollar. Because for the past 20 years, I have always shaken my head in disbelief that a TRUCK would be American's luxury vehicle of choice. The fanciest (and most fuelish) I ever got was a Chrysler 300M (which given the resale value of Chryslers, I DID end up selling for pennies on the dollar). And for 20 years, we've demanded bigger and bigger autos (trucks)...MPG be damned!!!! It's not a recent thing - we had Explorers and Suburbans...but those weren't big enough, so we got H2's and Excursions...this is LONG before the days of $4 gas. Supply and demand is a funny thing - especially when it comes to American's necessities - we run up a huge demand for gas and oil by driving vehicles that are lucky to get mileage in the low teens. We use them as "commuter cars" - one occupant for the daily trip to work on paved roads - but we feel good knowing we could "tow a boat" should the need arise. For most of the SUV's out there - boat towing is rare indeed - but going to work is a daily thing. And as those things sucked down a nonrenewable resource...we'd dream of an even BIGGER truck. So today we find ourselves whining and complaining because the price of gas has almost caught up with our demand for it.

There is not nearly such an outcry at the cost of milk...or meat...or other staples that have had their prices rise because our corn production is being shifted to creating ethanol (why are we not using sugar crops for ethanol and leave the corn crops for food???). Jeesh...we piss and moan about $4 a gallon gas while we sip a $2 PINT of water in a bottle.


My current car is a Prius - I consistently get over 40 mpg -regardless of how I drive. If I drive even halfway conservatively, I easily get 50 mpg. Yep..the batteries are an issue. My batteries are currently 3 and a half years old - but they show absolutely no sign of slowing down.

 

[delldude]

I think alternate energy sources are valid but when they skew food prices and such...whats the benefit?

As for hybrid vehicles....I think its too early to tell as for reliability and such.The technology for some of these vehicles now days rivals knowledge to work on aircraft.Poor dude at the local dealer lucky to make $13.00 an hour and has to have a degree in rocket science. :down:

 

[KCFlyer]

I think alternate energy sources are valid but when they skew food prices and such...whats the benefit?

As for hybrid vehicles....I think its too early to tell as for reliability and such.The technology for some of these vehicles now days rivals knowledge to work on aircraft.Poor dude at the local dealer lucky to make $13.00 an hour and has to have a degree in rocket science. :down:

That's why I wonder why we don't do more to subsidize sugar crops(sugar cane, sugar beets) versus corn - hardly any Americans realize just how good real sugar is/was, so the demand for it is much lower than the demand for corn. Plus, from what I have read, you can get far more ethanol out of sugar crops than you can from corn...corn is supposed to be one of the LEAST efficient methods of producing ethanol. The upside of shifting to sugar based crops for ethanol is that corn production could go back to food uses, and the prices for food could drop.

As for Hybrids - the current Prius is the second generation, and the hybrid technology is over 10 years old - and it's pretty easy to find stories of hybrids in taxicab fleets that have well over 100K miles on them.

 

[North by Northwest]

Gas prices don't have much to do with the president. Blame America's dependance on fuel, especially those that chose to drive Cadillac Escalades, H2s, and all those other gas-guzzling monsters.

Spoken like a true Democrat... blame your government for what is your own fault. :down:

That's odd, cause when this OIL INDUSTRY President took office, oil was $25-28 dollars a barrel. Whose BBF forever to the Bush family gang...the Saudi's (who just happen to have pocketed a extra $Trillion dollars over the last 8 years. Did I forget the move by this OIL PRESIDENT to "fill the strategic Reserves during all 7 1/2 years of his Presidency at the highest prices in 20 years.

One thing you are right about...this obscene gluttony of people driving TRUCKS as a status symbols in cities...and SUVs are NOTHING BUT TRUCKS. It is the most ignorant thing I've seen in a long time. Then they turn around and complain about the high price of gas (POOR people living above their means and feeling "entitled" to live like people with enough money to not care about gas prices.)

 

[777 fixer]

Oh...they're everywhere - in Dallas, one needs the heft of an H2 to navigate the rough spots at the Galleria parking lot...it's not a democratic or republican issue...but one can't just say that democrats or liberals blame anyone but themselves....here in the red heart of America, people don't seem to be able to put 2 and 2 together as they complain about the high price of gas while pumping $100 worth into their Excursion.

Exactly my point, they are everywhere in LA. For a group that supposedly blames no one but themselves they certainly have a funny way of showing it. I think you would have a hard time arguing all those people driving SUV's and large sedans out there are republicans. The State of California Senate Pro Tem Don Perata, a democrat, drives around in a Dodge Charger. Not exactly a vehicle known for its fuel efficency.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

As far as I can tell, there is no real shortage of fuel in the world. Just emotionally priced market values based on fear of instability of oil production. The President sure as heck had a lot to do with stability of oil production and fear. Fear of this that or the other thing is all he tlks about.

The benefit though, is most people cannot sustain large vehicles and lifestyles forever. Let the prices stay up. I have a friend who buys around $100.00USD per week for his pick up truck. All he does is drive it back and forth to work. He would NEVER think of hauling anything in it because he likes to keep it emaculate.

That's one day's wages on straight time after taxes. What a lifestyle!

 

[USAir757]

That's odd, cause when this OIL INDUSTRY President took office, oil was $25-28 dollars a barrel. Whose BBF forever to the Bush family gang...the Saudi's (who just happen to have pocketed a extra $Trillion dollars over the last 8 years. Did I forget the move by this OIL PRESIDENT to "fill the strategic Reserves during all 7 1/2 years of his Presidency at the highest prices in 20 years.

Well then, why not blame the 2007/2008 runup of fuel on the 110th congress (democrat controlled)?? Since they took the House and Senate back, oil prices have gone from around $46 to around $108 today? While we're at it, why not blame the Saudi's for our overconsumption? They must have something to do with why we're so addicted to fossil fuels. Let's see... who else can we blame.....

I refer back to Lily's post...

Oil is a commodity. The prices are not determined by one man or in some secret skull-and-bones room in Texas. As other commodities, it is traded in commodity markets around the globe... and now even by some pimply faced kids in front of a computer screen. The price is set by market forces... or, in essence, by what the traders believe are the current and future market forces. They anticipate fluctuations in supply and demand. They short sell on a mouse's whisper of a potential terrorist strike in Nigeria. They buy when another china man buys an automobile or when some kid farts in Pakistan.

In the 1990s, the U.S. government pushed the sales of SUV's on the American people because per-unit they provide a much higher profit margin to the auto-makers than do regular cars. That was fine with everyone then, when higher margins for Ford & GM helped stay layoffs and provide wage increases, but now that it's an issue of high gas prices, let's blame the president for the theories of supply & demand and macro-economics? Too much conspiracy theory, not enough common sense.

 

[delldude]

Well then, why not blame the 2007/2008 runup of fuel on the 110th congress (democrat controlled)?? Since they took the House and Senate back, oil prices have gone from around $46 to around $108 today? While we're at it, why not blame the Saudi's for our overconsumption? They must have something to do with why we're so addicted to fossil fuels. Let's see... who else can we blame.....

I refer back to Lily's post...


In the 1990s, the U.S. government pushed the sales of SUV's on the American people because per-unit they provide a much higher profit margin to the auto-makers than do regular cars. That was fine with everyone then, when higher margins for Ford & GM helped stay layoffs and provide wage increases, but now that it's an issue of high gas prices, let's blame the president for the theories of supply & demand and macro-economics? Too much conspiracy theory, not enough common sense.

Yeah...yeah..yeah.....just like the lines from the early 70's.........we're outa fuel and waa laa.....gas out the yahoo some 34 years later.
Already hearing about midwest oil rivaling other countries deposits.....its all hog wash,I'm sure....what happened to that congress' promise to roll back oil prices BTW? Too busy counting their oil stock dividends?

Funny thing...I can't remember Uncle Sam advising that I buy a SUV to bail out DTW.....

 

[UAL_TECH]

No, I didn't take my $40,000+ auto (truck actually) and sell if for pennies on the dollar. Because for the past 20 years, I have always shaken my head in disbelief that a TRUCK would be American's luxury vehicle of choice. The fanciest (and most fuelish) I ever got was a Chrysler 300M (which given the resale value of Chryslers, I DID end up selling for pennies on the dollar). And for 20 years, we've demanded bigger and bigger autos (trucks)...MPG be damned!!!! It's not a recent thing - we had Explorers and Suburbans...but those weren't big enough, so we got H2's and Excursions...this is LONG before the days of $4 gas. Supply and demand is a funny thing - especially when it comes to American's necessities - we run up a huge demand for gas and oil by driving vehicles that are lucky to get mileage in the low teens. We use them as "commuter cars" - one occupant for the daily trip to work on paved roads - but we feel good knowing we could "tow a boat" should the need arise. For most of the SUV's out there - boat towing is rare indeed - but going to work is a daily thing. And as those things sucked down a nonrenewable resource...we'd dream of an even BIGGER truck. So today we find ourselves whining and complaining because the price of gas has almost caught up with our demand for it.

There is not nearly such an outcry at the cost of milk...or meat...or other staples that have had their prices rise because our corn production is being shifted to creating ethanol (why are we not using sugar crops for ethanol and leave the corn crops for food???). Jeesh...we piss and moan about $4 a gallon gas while we sip a $2 PINT of water in a bottle.


My current car is a Prius - I consistently get over 40 mpg -regardless of how I drive. If I drive even halfway conservatively, I easily get 50 mpg. Yep..the batteries are an issue. My batteries are currently 3 and a half years old - but they show absolutely no sign of slowing down.

購入のアメリカ人をありがとう!
5 月あなたの決定はあなたの子供に通じる!

 

[SolidCactus]

Well, two things. I sold my Ford Excursion (thank God) a few years ago. At the time, diesel used to be around 2 something a gallon. When I bought it, diesel was in the mid 1s. I opted for the 12 MPG diesel, instead of the 8 MPG gas version... Just an FYI, that fuel tank on that thing was 52 gallons, right now, I bet it takes almost $200 to fill it.

I have had a Chevy Tahoe for a few years now. When gas started flirting with the $2 prices, i though, this won't last forever... Well it has, its gotten worse, and I'm convinced it will get way worse...

I want to trade it in for Hybrid of some kind. The Tahoe costs me about $100 a week just to drive to and from work, and it is insane. Unfortunately, right now, if I trade it in, I take a $12,000 loss. It wouldn't suprise me that most of America is in the same situation. When they bought their gas guzzling SUV, like I did, we didn't have gas prices this high. NOW, we want out, but we can't because our vehicles do not have enough resale value in order for us to get out.

I only like to buy Ford and GM because I think we need to support American labor (yes yes, I know that almost all Honda's and Toyota's are made in America too)... GM doesnt have a good hybrid option, YET, but I believe the hybrid Malibu is coming out soon.

America needs to wake up. I know I have. Supply and demand is the only thing that will change where we're headed, and we need to demand less in order for the prices to fall.

 

[USAir757]

GM doesnt have a good hybrid option, YET, but I believe the hybrid Malibu is coming out soon.

Chevrolet just released their new Tahoe Hybrid, which is around 14 mpg city/20 mpg highway. True, it's not excellent, but it's a good alternative for those who NEED a large SUV (there are still some of those out there, right?)
Chevy Tahoe Hybrid

 

[local 12 proud]

Well, two things. I sold my Ford Excursion (thank God) a few years ago. At the time, diesel used to be around 2 something a gallon. When I bought it, diesel was in the mid 1s. I opted for the 12 MPG diesel, instead of the 8 MPG gas version... Just an FYI, that fuel tank on that thing was 52 gallons, right now, I bet it takes almost $200 to fill it.

I have had a Chevy Tahoe for a few years now. When gas started flirting with the $2 prices, i though, this won't last forever... Well it has, its gotten worse, and I'm convinced it will get way worse...

I want to trade it in for Hybrid of some kind. The Tahoe costs me about $100 a week just to drive to and from work, and it is insane. Unfortunately, right now, if I trade it in, I take a $12,000 loss. It wouldn't suprise me that most of America is in the same situation. When they bought their gas guzzling SUV, like I did, we didn't have gas prices this high. NOW, we want out, but we can't because our vehicles do not have enough resale value in order for us to get out.

I only like to buy Ford and GM because I think we need to support American labor (yes yes, I know that almost all Honda's and Toyota's are made in America too)... GM doesnt have a good hybrid option, YET, but I believe the hybrid Malibu is coming out soon.

America needs to wake up. I know I have. Supply and demand is the only thing that will change where we're headed, and we need to demand less in order for the prices to fall.

So your a Rancher, Farmer, Etc...

.....Or just a soccer mom/dad trying to out do the next door neighbor?