OT: WN ANNOUNCES NEXT CITY

[mga707]

How many years ago did United run them out of Denver? Will they this time or will LUV figure out how to make money there now that Frontier has shown Denver a more presentable LCC?

WN exited DEN (Stapleton) in the fall of '86, after three and a half years.
Mighty presumptuous to claim that UA "ran them out". Might as well say that CO "ran them out" (if anyone did), as CO had as big of a DEN hub at that time as UA.

 

[wnbubbleboy]

Starting to look as though SWA is getting desperate. They are now entering markets that they never would have gone to 10 years ago. As their hedges disappear and their costs increase serving markets such as this, it should be interesting how that affects their bottom line.

IAD is a highly international jumpoff spot for United which may prove to be a stumbling block for SWA if their intention is to knock UAL out.

Not Desperate at all. Change in policy, the new mauntra is "over priced and under served". If anything UA should love the feeder business we will give your international flights at IAD.

 

[Borescope]

I guess we all feel the same sense of "pride in pay and benefit cuts" as SWA employees did for most of their existence, using lower pay, no pension, and worse work rules to help subsidize the undercutting of the legacies.

And your not trying to do the same thing to the LLC's now? If you were so worried about the pay of the SWA pilots (which is higher than your 74 capt's now), then why didn't you have the balls to stand up during your BK process and shut it down. It's really all about me, me, me isn't it.

Now UA is going to drag everyone down, so I suppose that we should all complain about how the pilots at UA are "using lower pay, no pension, and worse work rules to help subsidize the undercutting of the LLC's."

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

Borescope,

Did UAL furlough you sometime during the last few years? You seem awfully angry considering that you are (were?) an employee.

 

[ualdriver]

And your not trying to do the same thing to the LLC's now?
No. We just met the low bar that was set already by those who preceded us. And in my opinion, I would argue that we did better than the lowest common denominator out there- especially considering the situation we were in/are in.

If you were so worried about the pay of the SWA pilots (which is higher than your 74 capt's now), then why didn't you have the balls to stand up during your BK process and shut it down.

Actually, for 2006, most UA pilots' total compensation package will be higher than SWA's. From 2007-2010 you would be correct about the 747 Captain pay.

If you're asking if "I" didn't have the balls, then you're making an assumption about me that you know nothing about. Let's just say that for the rest of my career that I am ready to lose my airline job tomorrow if it were to ever happen for any reason, OK? That's probably the way any airline employee should plan their life/career, but that's a whole different thread.

If you're asking if the UAL pilot group didn't have the balls- I think they probably would have especially if management had stuck to their initial demands from the pilot group.

It's really all about me, me, me isn't it.
Yes. It is all about me. That's what I tell my family everyday when I wake up in the morning. I also tell that to my First Officer when he/she first sits down in the cockpit. It's important to get that out of the way out front.


Now UA is going to drag everyone down, so I suppose that we should all complain about how the pilots at UA are "using lower pay, no pension, and worse work rules to help subsidize the undercutting of the LLC's.

I guess you'd have to define "we." If "we" is a pilot group with a total compensation package that massively undercut the prevailing rates that existed in order to try to undercut the AMR's, UAL's, DAL's of the world, I would suppose it would be pretty hypocritical to make that complaint. If "we" is a pilot group that hasn't had their payrates *ahem* adjusted to the low bar set by our LCC competitors that preceded us, then I guess they could make that argument. But if they had any understanding of how the whole pay situation has unfolded over the past several years, they would probably look elsewhere for blame.

 

[jbguppy]

And your not trying to do the same thing to the LLC's now? If you were so worried about the pay of the SWA pilots (which is higher than your 74 capt's now), then why didn't you have the balls to stand up during your BK process and shut it down. It's really all about me, me, me isn't it.

Now UA is going to drag everyone down, so I suppose that we should all complain about how the pilots at UA are "using lower pay, no pension, and worse work rules to help subsidize the undercutting of the LLC's."

This cycle of negative pattern bargaining was not started by UAL, and it won't be finished with us either. Your obvious hostility and looking for someone to blame is two things.

1. Wrong
2. Your problem,

Get over it...

JBG

 

[Borescope]

This cycle of negative pattern bargaining was not started by UAL, and it won't be finished with us either. Your obvious hostility and looking for someone to blame is two things.

1. Wrong
2. Your problem,

Get over it...

JBG

Get over what? I'm satified with the compensation I get. I certentaly won't be whinnnning if yours goes further down , it isn't going to affect mine one way or another.

Borescope,

Did UAL furlough you sometime during the last few years? You seem awfully angry considering that you are (were?) an employee.

No, and as I have stated in previous post I never have work for UAL.



Ualdriver,
I could care less if you make more or less than anyone else in the industry. There always has to be someone at the top and someone at the bottoom. Certainly the UA pilots were either at or near the top for many years. When the LLC's came on the scene, and the big boys started to lose money, it was logical for management to go after the employees. I heard it time and time again from pilots that these LLC's were draging the rest of the industry down. The LLC's with their lower costs have come in and lowered the bar, but that's called business. The anger should be directed at your management not at the WN's, F9's, and AAI's of the world. They just figured out how to run an efficient airline under todays system. Management at the bigger airlines needs to do the same.

 

[jbguppy]

Get over what? I'm satified with the compensation I get. I certentaly won't be whinnnning if yours goes further down , it isn't going to affect mine one way or another.
No, and as I have stated in previous post I never have work for UAL.
Ualdriver,
I could care less if you make more or less than anyone else in the industry. There always has to be someone at the top and someone at the bottoom. Certainly the UA pilots were either at or near the top for many years. When the LLC's came on the scene, and the big boys started to lose money, it was logical for management to go after the employees. I heard it time and time again from pilots that these LLC's were draging the rest of the industry down. The LLC's with their lower costs have come in and lowered the bar, but that's called business. The anger should be directed at your management not at the WN's, F9's, and AAI's of the world. They just figured out how to run an efficient airline under todays system. Management at the bigger airlines needs to do the same.

You seem to characterize yourself in or out of this problem as it seems to suit your point in every paragraph.

First, you include yourself as blaming UAL for lowering the bar, and next you say it doesn't matter as it won't affect you.

You are either untruthful or a very poor writer- either way why should anyone bother talking to you any more.

If you don't have a dog in this fight why post as much as you do?

Come clean or depart...

JBG

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

Borescope - For someone who could care less about United, you have 49% of your posts in the United forum. Something has gotten your attention.

 

[QA4Jet-A]

It's not all about you. What I mean is that SWA doesn't go into a market to harm or suck passengers away from a competitor. They usually stimulate new traffic and fill up the planes nicely with little concern to competition. They don't care about going to a "lot" of markets but are concerned with going where the city pair can make the most money. Going to "more markets" does not necessarily convert to more profits and is often little more than ego such as "Worldwide Service" painted on the side of airplanes. Do you want "worldwide service" or do you want to be profitable? Additionaly SWA wanted Dulles before Airtran or JetBlue could get much of a foothold there.

Again -- some of you need to read the article on page 45 of the April 3 edition of "Aviation Week and Sapce Technology" magazine titled "Hedging Isn't the Only reason for Southwest's Low Costs". SWA is well aware of increasing employee labor rates and decreasing hedges but has found ways to mitigate them. For example - walk thru a SWA terminal and you'll see half the gate podiums unmanned yet flights are operating from the associated gates. They have consolidated podium personnel resulting in fewer people. The point to point flying results in more efficient use of personnel and equipment to the point in which it more than offsets the higher labor rates. Any other airline do 10 flights a day from a leased gate? On a stage adjusted basis, SWA average yield is nearly equal to the 2000 level, an impressive statistic considering network carriers are down about 18%. Even though fleet rationalization has occured at the netwrok carriers fuel efficiency per seat at these carriers has not reached SWA levels (reference AWST article). SWA percentage of owned airplanes versus leased is far far higher than any other airline resulting in certain advantages. The airline is run so efficiently in so may ways that people at traditional network carriers just will never understand and are locked into just thinking about fuel prices and labor rates without considering various areas of efficiencies that offset.

As far as -- " they are in fact straying away from what has made them successful - ..." A company that keeps their head in the sand and doesn't evolve and change with the times is doomed. Just look at what's happened to all the network carriers.

Then why didn't they get there first? Also, if they are not so concerned about anyone else, why did they go after the ATA gates at MDW so fiercely when FL bid for them? Simply.... WN is a tad scared of FL. Deny it all you want but, IMHO, that is a reality.

 

[Borescope]

but, IMHO

that is all that these boards have......Opinions. No one on here has anything but that. It's amazing how worked up some people get over someone elses opinion.