PBS Pres. AFA 66- AFA topic 1/8- Read post 1

[Travelpro72]

It takes Usairways and AFA at Usairways longer to do just about anything compared to other airlines. Delta and Northwest will be fully merged as one carrier before we ratify a contract. I'm willing to put money on THAT.

 

[malikie]

Does it really matter how far the AFA and the company are in negotiations?

The reason I ask and it was brought up in another post a few weeks back is the "Me to" policy the east flight attendants have been following.

If the AFA and the company get a contract ironed out will the FA group stand up and vote in a new contract without the pilots or will they wait for the pilots to vote in a new contract first?

If you all wait for the pilots your going to be working under the current contract for quite awhile the way things are going on the other side.

 

[Furloughd4now]

It takes Usairways and AFA at Usairways longer to do just about anything compared to other airlines. Delta and Northwest will be fully merged as one carrier before we ratify a contract. I'm willing to put money on THAT.

Can I get an Amen to that? I mean really. We're all just sitting back, waiting, waitng .... Why not just cancel the whole thing and wait till our contract is amendable .....

BTW has anyone really read the transisition agreement? I believe it states that a combined contract should be ratified within 18months of the single agreement terms? I will find it and post it.


Enjoy yur beverages

 

[aredeeyou22]

Oh, you need to give that a rest already.

THREE YEARS and we are just getting into the meat and bones of our contract? Please. If they were REALLY looking out for OUR best interests (by that I mean AFA, both sides) the JNC would have come up with at least SOMETHING, a minimum of a year ago.

Not sure what you are having trouble comprehending, but I'll say it again. The Company does not have to negotiate seriously with us now, since the East contract is in full force until 2012. It is a bankruptcy ravaged contract, and the Company enjoys the low labor costs involved. You think the JNC is sittin' around, enjoying the fact that reserves are miserable? Do a little research. Send some emails to MF. He'll tell you exactly what he is working on, and what the Company response has been. Some Company responses would make you laugh out loud.

But no, the folks on the JNC and the folks at AFA are "busy working their lines" .... Go ahead and prove me wrong please. Every time I write AFA about any issue, I get NO reply. Is that what I pay $42/month for???

I don't know what "busy working their lines" means. And I receive a response from people at AFA each and every time I write. That include MF, JM, as well as the Hotel Committee.

Here's hoping that you never need the protection from the Union down the road; I know a few people out there who trashed AFA constantly, and suddenly found themselves glad they were around....

As for the company. You don't need to tell me. If it were up to them, there would be vending machines in that aft galley and NO ONE to protect the hundreds of nuckleheads we have to deal with everyday.

So you understand that the Company is not really willing to negotiate an industry leading contract because they don't have to. Why again are you blaming the AFA for the lack of contract progress?

Now, there are many here who have been through many mergers. I ask you this .... has it taken 3 ++ years to ratify a union contract???? I Do not believe so.

Different economic environment. Different management. Airline going in a different direction, whether we like it or not. Has nothing to do with AFA negotiating tactics.

So please stop yankin my chain ....It does NOT take over 3++ years to ratify a union contract, post-merger (show me evidence of otherwise and I will eat my words)

Where is the law that says it can't take 3+ years to negotiate a contract? I'm not happy with it, but am glad that the JNC is standing their ground and not allowing our contract to be gutted further.

Also, I have sent my letters and emails to AFA but to no avail. They will do what they want to do, regardless.

I don't get that. Again, I write to various officers almost weekly asking questions, and have never not received a response.

 

[galley princess]

Aredeeyou22 said it well, the only thing that I would add is that if you look at previous mergers, significant growth was always involved.

Until 2000, most of US expected continued growth, everything pointed toward it, aircraft deliveries, hiring etc. After 9/11, the sharks of this industry saw an opportunity and went for it in a way that stuns us even today. The gutting of US' contracts was unprecedented. The lost retirements changed the game, seniority upward movement ceased as those who had counted on the retirement continue to stay and work at US. Previously, the retirement, when in force made it economically stupid not to retire, they made more money in retirement than schlepping their bags on International. Now the senior can't retire because it won't cover their expenses. NO MOVEMENT.

Guess what? Get used to it. This company has a management that will not project into the future and consider the cost savings of a retirement buyout. Why? They don't plan on being around long enough to make it worthwhile. Senior mamas started at 19 years old. Most of them aren't even 60 yet and they have 40 years. Not getting into the intricacies, but we'll have them for at least another 5-10 years.

Throw in a new type of management from a regional carrier and it's a whole new world. AWA never met a cheap fix that it didn't immediately love, and nothing can change their delight at having a concessionary contract in force until 2012. They HAVE NO INCENTIVE to negotiate, and so they aren't.

This is easy stuff, example: Union asks for reserve lines with Thanksgiving and Christmas off. Company says: NO. Hell, February is the first month that they fixed the maximum at 85 hours. All the past months have been 90. These people don't even repair the inside of airplanes, they're so cheap. And you think they're going to let your rear end off of reserve?

No growth = long reserve. The best the JNC and MF can do is make it liveable.

Delta and NWA WILL have a contract before we do. They have a totally different type of management and mindset. As yet, they do not have plans for the least common denominator, and their significant international presence will probably preclude it, however, NWA brought a lot of people to the new DELTA, and this is the bunch that tried to outsource all international flying to third world employees, so never say never.

 

[Travelpro72]

You know what? I hesitate to say this but we have been under this terrible concessionary contract for so long whats two more years? If the company has "no incentive" to negotiate a joint agreement then AFA should take the same approach. Listen, I know the transition agreement details that we must both negotiate in good faith. Is the company negotiating "in good faith"? So drag it out all they want but when the contract is up let AFA slide the card across the table to management and tell them to go pound salt and to get in touch with AFA when they are serious. Nobody wants to live under this agreement another day BUT by the time we negotiate a FULL agreement and get to vote on it our current contract will be up. While I know it's hard and appreciate the time it takes to put proposals together to present to the company this is going to take forever. Forever because the company has "no incentive" to bargain. So again I ask per the transition agreement are BOTH sides bargaining "in good faith"? Mmmm hmmmmm thats what I thought.

 

[FlightChic]

A new eline just came out about the Reserve Section of the contract negotiations. Either MF was reading this thread or lots of reserves have been writing and complaining because if you notice everytime we have a major complaint an eline comes out. lol

 

[Furloughd4now]

I have worked both sides (East and West) as part of the Transition Agreement (using invols as new hires on the West). Let me tell you it wasn't pretty being there. I don't even know how many are left, but there aren't many.

The prevailing attitude of management that is part of the AWA culture that exists today fosters mis-information and paranoia. I am not meaning to start a bashing thread but it is what it is. I worked there for 2 years and I need to say, as crappy as it is here, I am SO much happier here than there (and this was Before the Nic award!)

If you look at some of the reserve sections that the company wants to incorporate, it is from current West policies that are horrible. I'm glad that AFA is taking a stand against it.

For those that were furloughed from the East, went West to work can attest to this. Again, I am not saying to bash....

Whenever I wrote to AFA 66 about any issue, there was no reply .... ever, even after multiple letters.

I had sent a note to East AFA with regard to a recent issue, and as of today, I have not received a reply.

I am not bashing AFA, but I am not happy with their performance. I trust them to do the right thing and I have every right to bloviate and opine here.

My opinions are just that ... opinions! Just because you do not agree with me, it doesn't mean I am wrong.

You fly safe and fly fun my brothers and sisters!

 

[flybynite]

I just read the latest E-Line from Mike and I think everyone needs to check it out. It's very detailed and well worth reading.

 

[aredeeyou22]

I just read the latest E-Line from Mike and I think everyone needs to check it out. It's very detailed and well worth reading.

Agreed, check it out, but most of the E-Line sent today was a copy/ paste of a former E-line where he states the JNC's plans for securing a livable reserve system that allows FA's to pay their bills. Most of the E-line is nothing new, just serves as a reminder when someone starts one of these "MF doesn't care about meeeee" threads....

It seems to me that people were sending e-mails to him saying that the Contract negotiations are favoring line holders, not realizing the Reserve section had been tabled until more scheduling discrepancies were negotiated. Standard negotiating procedures, it seems.

 

[flybynite]

Just got another E-Line from Mike. He's on a roll. Go Mike!!

 

[Zarah]

Another e-line is out addressing the Brinks deposit.

Print and share the info!

 

[Travelpro72]

Did ya all read that E-line about depositing money? I have to ask, "Is there Labor Relations at Usairways"? I mean, AT AAAAAAALLLLLL? One word....CONTRACT folks out west in Tempe need to start reading it. Seriously, this is an AWESOME letter from Mike.

 

[aredeeyou22]

Did ya all read that E-line about depositing money? I have to ask, "Is there Labor Relations at Usairways"? I mean, AT AAAAAAALLLLLL? One word....CONTRACT folks out west in Tempe need to start reading it. Seriously, this is an AWESOME letter from Mike.

Simply call your supervisor the next morning and explain to them that your 15 minute debrief was used either deplaning, or cleaning the aircraft. If they receive enough of these calls, things will change.

In my opinion, we do enough things for free now.

 

[Travelpro72]

I hear ya. My problem with that is a f/a is not in violation of their contract. I think Mike will be after this guy to correct the situation. Hopefully it won't get that far as f/a's having to "defend" their not depositing money to a supervisor.