Pension Calculator or Jetnet

[AAOHNO]

All this information conflicts with the information that the pbgc provided in their scenario.

Who's website did you get this information from...... h34r: h34r: h34r:

 

[BoeingBoy]

With that said, it would have been beneficial to me to retire at 60 and collect $1449 a month rather then wait till 65 and collect the same thing.

It depends on which PC group you fall into and how much money would be available to the PBGC if they took over the pension. Since all of US' DB plans were terminated in one or the other of the bankruptcies, I have no idea how the payout would work for a frozen plan.

Jim

 

[jimntx]

The Pension Calculator is there as of right now.

Frozen means, as of the date of the freeze, no additional benefit will accrue. All other aspects of the plan remain as they were prior to 11/29/11. No new entrants. Plain and simple.

Again, there have been several flavors of "frozen" depending upon the particular company and the circumstances of the freeze. Your definition is just one of the versions of "freezing the plan."

 

[jersey777]

It depends on which PC group you fall into and how much money would be available to the PBGC if they took over the pension. Since all of US' DB plans were terminated in one or the other of the bankruptcies, I have no idea how the payout would work for a frozen plan.

Jim

I am simply repeating the information providing by American Airlines since they took the time to put a pension calculator on the front page of Jetnet. I am suspicious because it directly clashes with the information provided by the PGBC. See below:



Flight attendants would also lose benefits under a plan termination, the PBGC found. A flight attendant making a salary of $31,000 who has 15 years of service would receive $7,700 at 65 or 60 if the plan continued. If the plan is terminated, the flight attendant could expect $7,200 at 65 or $4,464 at 60.



Read more here: http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/#storylink=cpy

 

[Veritas]

If the PBGC takes over the pension plans, whether you retire at 60 or 65 has nothing to do with the amount of your pension because when your pension is calculated, PBGC will use 11/29/2011 (the date that AMR filed for bankruptcy and ostensibly quit putting money into the pension plans) as the last day you worked--regardless of when you actually retire or start drawing your pension.

That's incorrect.

The level of benefits is calculated based upon number of years one had in the pension plan, before it was terminated, and age at which one starts collecting. There is a penalty for starting collecting before age 65. If you choose to wait, the amount will be higher. Just ask any of the former TWA flight attendants.

PBGC Announces Maximum Insurance Benefit for 2011​

 

[BoeingBoy]

Flight attendants would also lose benefits under a plan termination, the PBGC found. A flight attendant making a salary of $31,000 who has 15 years of service would receive $7,700 at 65 or 60 if the plan continued. If the plan is terminated, the flight attendant could expect $7,200 at 65 or $4,464 at 60.

I emphasized the important part. I don't think that anyone has said that employees will get the full benefit they would get at normal retirement if the plans stayed in effect, and the younger the employee the bigger the reduction. Either terminated or frozen, an employee's benefit will be smaller than if the plan had remained unchanged - no surprise there. But having a DB plan remain if effect unchanged seems like a long shot at this point - sorta like the odds of it snowing in MIA on July 4th.

Jim

 

[jersey777]

For the umpteenth time...... The max at 60 or 65 does not reach what most flight attendants would accrue at that age even if they started flying at 20 years old. This comes straight from the pension calculator but once again this does not jive with info provided to the star telegram by the pbgc! Got the jist of what I am saying!!!!

 

[FWAAA]

I don't see any support for the PBGC's assertions that the hypothetical APFA member would get less at 60 than at 65 if the pension were terminated. As I understand it, AA's plan allows most employees to retire at 60 with no reduction in benefits. As the APFA member's pension is well below the PBGC guarantee maximum, I don't believe that the pension would be reduced if the FA retired at 60.

For retirees with pensions in excess of the maximum guarantee, the age at which they begin drawing the retirement benefit could cause a reduction - the most common example would be pilots who were forced to retire at 60 (under prior law); the PBGC maximum for 60 is far less than the maximum at 65.

The PBGC didn't show their work for the example of $7,200 annually at age 65 but only $4,464 annually at age 60. I believe the PBGC example is not accurate. If the AA plan would give the FA $600/mo at age 65, it would pay the same $600/mo at 60. If the plan is terminated, the FA would get the same $600/mo at age 60 or 65.

 

[chris perry]

I'd love to, but apparently it's not available to former employees affected by this, and HR has yet to respond to me on it.

Good luck with HR,I spent almost a year trying to get a new spouse added to my benefits.Their is no one to talk too except at headquarters
and she only does app's for retirement. It was a complete fiasco!!!! Only hr chat on Jetnet,I sat 2 hours just waiting for a chat response.In the end
finally I got a call from HR at AA ad she resolved the issues. 11 months later. Pretty sad!!!!

 

[jersey777]

Thank for finally ackowloging what I was trying to say. So what difference does it make to the flight attendants wheatear the pension is frozen or terminated. Now the company states that they have seek outside funding to maintain the pensions. Where is that money coming from? Incentive rates, medical, work rules etc. I say let the pbgc take our pensions and use the money that Aa needs to fund them to fund the return of the item we need now like pay rates, medical, vacation etc. in my view this is a politic cave in by Aa which will not benefit our day to day lives.

 

[Mr Red]

Thank for finally ackowloging what I was trying to say. So what difference does it make to the flight attendants wheatear the pension is frozen or terminated. Now the company states that they have seek outside funding to maintain the pensions. Where is that money coming from? Incentive rates, medical, work rules etc. I say let the pbgc take our pensions and use the money that Aa needs to fund them to fund the return of the item we need now like pay rates, medical, vacation etc. in my view this is a politic cave in by Aa which will not benefit our day to day lives.

I've been on Retirement site and PBGC Site and see no difference if its frozen or Terminated In A/C Maint our pay has declined to the point we don't even come close to max!
If I decide to move on, I can start drawing retirement at 55 next year if I choose. The PBGC administers the plan, they don't change it.The TWU /AA proposal seems moot to me.

 

[jimntx]

I don't see any support for the PBGC's assertions that the hypothetical APFA member would get less at 60 than at 65 if the pension were terminated. As I understand it, AA's plan allows most employees to retire at 60 with no reduction in benefits. As the APFA member's pension is well below the PBGC guarantee maximum, I don't believe that the pension would be reduced if the FA retired at 60.

For retirees with pensions in excess of the maximum guarantee, the age at which they begin drawing the retirement benefit could cause a reduction - the most common example would be pilots who were forced to retire at 60 (under prior law); the PBGC maximum for 60 is far less than the maximum at 65.

The PBGC didn't show their work for the example of $7,200 annually at age 65 but only $4,464 annually at age 60. I believe the PBGC example is not accurate. If the AA plan would give the FA $600/mo at age 65, it would pay the same $600/mo at 60. If the plan is terminated, the FA would get the same $600/mo at age 60 or 65.

PBGC rules assume "full" retirement at age 65 (like normal people ). IIRC, in the earlier airline bankruptcies, there was much ado about the mandatory age 60 (at the time) retirement for pilots, and they not only got a pension reduction for the fact that their average monthly stipend was over the PBGC max at the time, but also they got dinged for "retiring early."

At Texaco, our retirement plan allowed you to retire as early as age 50 if you had the years, but you stipend was prorated 5% for every year prior to age 60 unless you were going out on a medical/disability retirement.

 

[Mr Red]

PBGC rules assume "full" retirement at age 65 (like normal people ). IIRC, in the earlier airline bankruptcies, there was much ado about the mandatory age 60 (at the time) retirement for pilots, and they not only got a pension reduction for the fact that their average monthly stipend was over the PBGC max at the time, but also they got dinged for "retiring early."

At Texaco, our retirement plan allowed you to retire as early as age 50 if you had the years, but you stipend was prorated 5% for every year prior to age 60 unless you were going out on a medical/disability retirement.

Whatever your plan allows PBGC Pays. TWU represented can retire at 55 With reduced benefit.

 

[jimntx]

Whatever your plan allows PBGC Pays. TWU represented can retire at 55 With reduced benefit.

What did I just say? Yes, you can retire at any age your current plan allows. There is a monthly penalty for retiring "early."

 

[Mr Red]

What did I just say? Yes, you can retire at any age your current plan allows. There is a monthly penalty for retiring "early."

Im not getting the 3% v 6% reduction the TWU says is difference between freeze and termination.The plan says 3%
the PBGC follows plan Right?