Pensions

[Bob Owens]

THe following is from a brief sent to mechanics a CAL and UAL from the IBT

8. What Will Happen To Continental’s Pension Plan?
The CARP defined benefit pension plan is governed and regulated by
ERISA laws, and CAL cannot use the merger as a justification to
dissolve or terminate it. Moreover, CAL apparently has no present
plans to freeze or terminate the plan. CAL, however, is not obliged to
extend the plan to UAL employees, but as our members know, we
remain committed to seeking a defined benefit pension plan for our
UAL mechanics and related.

Isnt it ironic that when it all settles down CAL and UAL will likely have DB pensions for all their mecahanics, despite the fact that both have gone through BK and the same wont be true at AA?

In 2003 we were told that we were giving up all we did to save the Pension and retiree health, now we will be giving up both. For those of us under 49, if we dont save the pension for the new hires they wont save it for us. If 54% are over 50 in 15 years most of the mechanics will be working without a DB or retiree health benifits. So, why did we give away well over $160,000?

 

[toroshark]

This is exactly what I have been saying to any at work who will listen. If we sell out the new guy's pension then those who are still around when there are more without pension than those with will see their pensions voted away. I can only imagine what kind of formula AA would concoct to transform a 57 year old mech with 28 years seniority pension over to a equitable 401K. That will be the BOHICA of a lifetime. People under 50 need to know this simple math as well, it will take 150 sick days in the bank to cover your retiree med from 60 to 65. Im 43 with 15 years in. I have 17 years to go till 60. 17 years x 8 sk days per year = 136 days in the bank. Basically i can look at my sick bank now and subtract 14 and what is left is all the sick days I can use until Im 60 if I want to retire at 60 and have my med covered till 65. RIDICULOUS!!!!! If they want to get a program more on par with the others then give us the same formula. I think it was 11sick hours for a month of coverage. And getting 12 sick days a year. I cant believe TWU brought this back.

 

[Mr Red]

I personally want nothing to do with cutting anything,we've cut enough!!
AA Mechanics don't need to be the leaders in bringing this profession
down any further! VOTE NO !!!!!!

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I can certainly understand not wanting to cut something, even if it only applies to new hires. But what should AA do? Unlike its competitors who were essentially able to "cheat" through bankruptcy and push their pensions off to the government (PBGC), AA has kept its obligation and continues to fund its plans. That makes for a huge cost disadvantage relative to its competitors. Unless that gap is closed AA won't be able to survive in the long term, and that's a whole lot worse than not offering pensions to new employees.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Unless that gap is closed AA won't be able to survive in the long term, and that's a whole lot worse than not offering pensions to new employees.

Why is it the employees are again asked to subsidize the failure of management to adapt to a changing competitive landscape? Isn't that why this highly compensated group of executives is constantly induced to stay here?

 

[MCI transplant]

I can certainly understand not wanting to cut something, even if it only applies to new hires. But what should AA do? Unlike its competitors who were essentially able to "cheat" through bankruptcy and push their pensions off to the government (PBGC), AA has kept its obligation and continues to fund its plans. That makes for a huge cost disadvantage relative to its competitors. Unless that gap is closed AA won't be able to survive in the long term, and that's a whole lot worse than not offering pensions to new employees.

<_< ------- I'll tell you what! AA can't cry poverty when they give millions $$$ to their elite top 100. At the same time screw their employees under 50 years old!------- If they can afford those type of bonus, they can afford to take care of those that devote their life's to keeping those fat cats feed!!!

 

[FWAAA]

<_< ------- I'll tell you what! AA can't cry poverty when they give millions $$$ to their elite top 100. At the same time screw their employees under 50 years old!------- If they can afford those type of bonus, they can afford to take care of those that devote their life's to keeping those fat cats feed!!!

The top 1,000 executives participating in the PSP just split $3 million in actual stock payouts; that's an average of $3,000 per The top five split $545,000 total, and Arpey got $184k. Fat cats? Laughable.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/04/amr-executives-take-a-hit-on-s.html

Oh, those inconvenient truths.

 

[Hopeful]

The top 1,000 executives participating in the PSP just split $3 million in actual stock payouts; that's an average of $3,000 per The top five split $545,000 total, and Arpey got $184k. Fat cats? Laughable.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/04/amr-executives-take-a-hit-on-s.html

Oh, those inconvenient truths.

Maybe I can return my $105.00 windfall check to the execs so they won't leave the company.

BOOOHOOOOOOOO, FWAAA..poor executives aren't getting the payouts they're accustomed to ,....BOOOOHOOOOOOO

 

[The Goose]

Maybe I can return my $105.00 windfall check to the execs so they won't leave the company.

BOOOHOOOOOOOO, FWAAA..poor executives aren't getting the payouts they're accustomed to ,....BOOOOHOOOOOOO

If the mechanics screw up and a few aircraft crash, I wonder how much their bonus for failure would be?

 

[FWAAA]

Maybe I can return my $105.00 windfall check to the execs so they won't leave the company.

BOOOHOOOOOOOO, FWAAA..poor executives aren't getting the payouts they're accustomed to ,....BOOOOHOOOOOOO

Finally, I see some of the joy, happiness and satisfaction at the reduced pay for the highest paid execs for 2010.

The other day I wondered why you guys weren't celebrating the success of AMR's variable pay program and here you are, finally recognizing that variable pay for execs works. When things go well, they're paid exhorbitant wages and when things don't go so well, they're merely highly paid.

 

[Hopeful]

If the mechanics screw up and a few aircraft crash, I wonder how much their bonus for failure would be?

they would get more of a bonus for making the tough decision to fire the mechanic responsible.

 

[The Goose]

they would get more of a bonus for making the tough decision to fire the mechanic responsible.

No, dammit - I was talking about the mechanic bonus for failure ... [/sarcasm]

 

[MCI transplant]

The top 1,000 executives participating in the PSP just split $3 million in actual stock payouts; that's an average of $3,000 per The top five split $545,000 total, and Arpey got $184k. Fat cats? Laughable.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/04/amr-executives-take-a-hit-on-s.html

Oh, those inconvenient truths.

<_< ------- And pray tell, what are their plains for the man on the floor? -------- A golden screwing!?----- My point exactly!!!-------- And as for the threat of extinction for AA, it comes to a point in time where it's better to cut your looses and get on with one's life!------- Not a pleasant prospect, but in the long term, one's much better off for it!!!

 

[Bear96]

Why is it the employees are again asked to subsidize the failure of management to adapt to a changing competitive landscape? Isn't that why this highly compensated group of executives is constantly induced to stay here?

Couldn't keeping the DB pensions be seen as a "failure of management to adapt to a changing competitive landscape"?

 

[Hopeful]

Finally, I see some of the joy, happiness and satisfaction at the reduced pay for the highest paid execs for 2010.

The other day I wondered why you guys weren't celebrating the success of AMR's variable pay program and here you are, finally recognizing that variable pay for execs works. When things go well, they're paid exhorbitant wages and when things don't go so well, they're merely highly paid.

When did you get your degree in SPIN DOCTORING?
Care to compare my $105 to there between paltry $3000 and $545000?

I have a novel idea for the executive elitists.....how about when the company makes a profit they get their bonuses rather than just stock performance?

This way NO ONE GETS ANYTHING UNLESS PROFIT GOALS ARE REACHED..


And I mean NO ONE!

A company could be losing money faster than the oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico and the elitists at the top still get STOCK PERFORMANCE REWARDS?

You do very well criticizing unions but at the end of the day, the execs always seem to get a pass.