ManDachine
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- Feb 4, 2004
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What is the phone number to check?
Pilot Bid
- Thread starter Mtnman928
- Start date
autofixer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,804
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I am one of those 2500+ F/Os that could care-a-less as I have little or nothing to lose, even in my 21st year, thanks to Ole St. Nic. Do me a favor and fire me! I'll just be retired.
Dang Jim, you're retired and get the info before us! You still working for the bid closing committee? As I high priced consultant I hope!
Mostly in theory. You can late pay, partial pay, drag it out and they'll never lay a glove on you. I've seen it happen.
What I've found disgustingly interesting is that unions keep members in the dark regarding negotiations, grievances, etc., but screw with the dues and all of a sudden, you get the personal attention you never received before.
I'd love to see US pilots make ALPA squeal like a school girl dues-wise. It'd make a great object lesson.
OP
Mtnman928
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I was hanging out in the CLT Crew Room about a year and a half ago and if I remember correctly, they had posted a list of guys that were behind in the dues payment. I seem to remember it was about 350 guys.
Unless they had a sudden change of heart, I doubt any of these "bad boys" were fired. I am assuming some have since retired but I'll bet the number is still near that number.
MM
1-800-438-3221, VRS# option 2
nycbusdriver
Veteran
It is theoretically possible for a pilot to get fired for non-payment of ALPA dues. Actually, even that is not true. It is perfectly legal for a pilot to quit ALPA and remain employed by paying "contract administration" fees to ALPA. This amounts to about 70% of the regular dues. ALPA has no recourse to have a pilot fired if these fees are paid.
If the pilot refuses to even pay those administrative fees, it is theoretically possible that the pilot can be fired at ALPA's request. We have dozens of pilots who have not paid a dime to ALPA in years, yet are still collecting paychecks here. There is not one case to point to where a pilot has been fired over non-payment of ALPA dues. It's all theory, and possible, but not happening in the real world. There are so many tactics available to fend off the actual termination that most pilots could probably spend their entire career in the process of getting fired, but not ever actually GET fired for dues non-payment.
If ALPA ever managed to get one pilot fired, the "poster child" would be known by all. And there are NONE.
I'm not advocating stopping dues payments. The east needs everybody in good standing so that they can vote on contracts and LOAs, and so their reps can have "roll call power" (of course, it would be great to have more CLT pilots in bad standing to take some power out of the "weak sister" reps.)
At any rate, every pilot (dues payer or not, bad standing or not) gets to vote in the forthcoming representational elections by federal law.
If the pilot refuses to even pay those administrative fees, it is theoretically possible that the pilot can be fired at ALPA's request. We have dozens of pilots who have not paid a dime to ALPA in years, yet are still collecting paychecks here. There is not one case to point to where a pilot has been fired over non-payment of ALPA dues. It's all theory, and possible, but not happening in the real world. There are so many tactics available to fend off the actual termination that most pilots could probably spend their entire career in the process of getting fired, but not ever actually GET fired for dues non-payment.
If ALPA ever managed to get one pilot fired, the "poster child" would be known by all. And there are NONE.
I'm not advocating stopping dues payments. The east needs everybody in good standing so that they can vote on contracts and LOAs, and so their reps can have "roll call power" (of course, it would be great to have more CLT pilots in bad standing to take some power out of the "weak sister" reps.)
At any rate, every pilot (dues payer or not, bad standing or not) gets to vote in the forthcoming representational elections by federal law.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
If my math is correct there are 208 East pilot open bid positions for furloughees and/or new hires for November and December. And, the good news is that this same rate of attrtion will extend into the future.
What's interesting is that with a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award the West pilots could inherit the airline, but with the current state of affairs new hires are going to inherit the East side of the operation and the West will have only PHX/LAS to bid -- with very little seniority list movement.
The East November/December Pilot Permanent Bid result is going to provide meaningful pay raises as F/O's become Captain's, Narrowbody pilots become Widebody pilots, Reserves become Lineholders, and Group II F/O's become EMB-190 Captains.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
What's interesting is that with a "realistic solution" to the Nicolau Award the West pilots could inherit the airline, but with the current state of affairs new hires are going to inherit the East side of the operation and the West will have only PHX/LAS to bid -- with very little seniority list movement.
The East November/December Pilot Permanent Bid result is going to provide meaningful pay raises as F/O's become Captain's, Narrowbody pilots become Widebody pilots, Reserves become Lineholders, and Group II F/O's become EMB-190 Captains.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
- 2,544
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Your character is certainly unsurpassed in this cyber world for a person filled with so much bitterness and antipathy. It comes out in so many ways even as you vainly attempt to hide all emotions in your rhetorical posts. We on the west do not wish any ill will on anyone; it is the peace which we all have known right from the beginnig as pilots with little ol' AWA. We would have liked to think our brothers in the east shared the same attitudes and had the same core values which makes living pleasant. Perhaps there are a few pilots in the east which are truly happy just for the essentials of a good, prosperous life. Although, with some east contributors here (in particular yourself) we all can see the inner darkness you live with every day. You find joy in others (perceived) anguish. Whether it is trodding on a pilot group in Phoenix or reveling in misfortune suffered by fellow pilots at an airline like UAL, you surely demonstrate the hallmark trait of a person with no character. Peace.
AAA73Pilot
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- Jul 18, 2007
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excellent post. How could they ever make someone a poster child? The lawsuits of discrimination would be unbelievable. They would have to go back and fire every non dues payer on the property. Take away what little retirement a non dues payer left with. etc etc.
Vote on contracts? LOA's? What a novel concept. I have been advocating a vote since day 1.
Looking forward to casting a ballot in the upcoming election also.
Regards
E
EastUS
Guest
I'm no US320 fan, so I'm not proffering any defense there, although your own post seems a bit "filled with so much bitterness and antipathy". I'd necessarily note that "you surely demonstrate the hallmark trait of a person with no character." immediately followed with "Peace" seems somewhat cross threaded. My personal preference has always been to tell my perceived opponents to simply and directly "shove it", and make no claims to excessive piety, nor astonishing self righteousness in so doing...but whatever suits you, I suppose
There ARE far more than " a few pilots in the east which are truly happy just for the essentials of a good, prosperous life".
Said "good, prosperous life" requires the maintenance of seniority....period, and on that point, swords are drawn.
That this whole, sad mess proved to be the catalyst for the evermore likely dismissing of Alpo's the only real benefit I've yet seen for all the encompassed distress.
"we all can see the inner darkness you live with every day." Other than; You're kidding..right?....Words simply fail me here
Must be time to call Oprah/Dr Phil .
autofixer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,804
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This is what has amazed me most about this whole mess...the Westies were going to inherit the entire airline in a few short years. Flying they did not have (Europe, Caribbean, etc.) was falling into their laps. Now with St. Nic, who knows? If there is another merger (and it is likely) they could now lose it all. Heck, we'll all be gone over the next few years so what do we care what happens now, as long as St. Nics gift is not delivered?
prechilill
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2002
- 2,544
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Thank you for admitting seniority at one's company is everything. It should be preserved. Mine wasn't preserved with Nicolau because I lost 5% with the decision. The senior pilots at AWA lost a lot more. Such is life. So, my friend, what is good for is good for me. You and your junior FO's have no right to my seniority. You deserve to be where you are because of your own decisions in life. Please do not blame me or expect me to pick up the pieces to your failed airline career. I say this with sorrow, too. The road you PSA and Piedmont pilots have had to endure is certainly a Shakespear tragedy in the story of professional flying. But it still does not avail you to my captain seat or the seniority I brought to the merger. Best of luck in your sobering reconciliation with reality.
autofixer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,804
- 241
That's just it, nobody wanted your seat. That is what fences are for. Like I said in another post, it is obvious the West wants and is demanding our seats. If I have to hear about life choices once more I may go postal. Through mergers etc., I never even applied at USAir (Allegheny back in the day), but I work there, as you now do. This industry is horrible and you have no idea what the future holds. What goes around, comes around.
